im pretty sure im correct but ive been wrong about these things before- so i assue that the blades -2 defense happens as soon as you attack, so the enemy gets -2 for that attack

Yes

richsabre said:

Yeah, otherwise it would be pretty much useless. Since you can only declare one attack against each enemy during a given combat phase, reducing an enemy's defense only during subsequent attacks wouldn't be worth much.

This works because the Blade's ability is passive and not an "after attack" response; if, at any point during the combat phase, the attached character is ever attacking an enemy, that foe will be subject to a -2 defense penalty until the end of the phase.

Now, which characters are the best Blade wielders? Legolas?

starhawk77 said:

Funny. I almost said Boromir but then remembered the blade was trait specific.

I'd think that Elladan would be best since he can restand each time he's declared as an attacker.

Bomb said:

Good call. With his 3 attack (essentially 5 once you toss in the Blade), he'll chew through several enemies a turn.

yes i immediatly thought of him to be the blades owner as soon as i get it

starhawk77 said:

I don't know, though. I always find myself limited on resources so I'm not sure I'd be able to afford to ready him multiple times. I think Boromir's ready ability is much more accessible. Do you think there will be cards that could give him the Noldor trait? I doubt it. It works for Rohan, but that's a political distinction, not a species.

Still, the point that Elladan will have a high attack with the blade still makes him great for the blade, even without multiple chances to ready.

Budgernaut said:

I actually think Legolas would be ideal if you can find ways to restand him. The fact that it's an "until the end of the phase" effect can be tremendous if you attack an enemy engaged with your opponent using Ranged. This way you are either reducing the defend first, or joining him in the attack against the enemy. Would be a huge help against those pesky high defense enemies. In addition to that, if you attacked first with Ranged, and then re-attacked with the same character(if you can stand them), I can see -4 on the enemies DEF and potentially be able to finish them off in one turn with the same character. Is it illegal to join an attack with Ranged, and then perform your own attack when it's your turn? I don't think it is.

Bomb said:

No, that's perfectly legal. Per the FAQ (p. 3), you can only declare one attack against each enemy per combat phase. However, individual characters can attack the same enemy multiple times, provided each attack is legally declared (this usually means attacking during your combat step and then using ranged to join an attack declared by another player).

Definitely seems like a good fit for a Legolas with Unexpected Courage or some other readying effect.

The thing that bugs me about the 'ranged' trait (or whatever it's called) is that it counts a player's total attack, not just the printed attack strength. Explain to me how someone using a BLADE can use it in a ranged attack? Is it being thrown? Good luck throwing a sword. I think 'ranged' was a poor choice of words. They should've called it 'assist', unless they plan on adding bows as attachments, then it would make sense.

Eeesh, need to read all responses before posting

Can defense be reduced below zero?

Anodos said:

No.

From p. 25 of the rule book:

"If one of a hero’s, ally’s, enemy’s, or location’s statistics [Willpower, Threat, Attack, or Defense] is ever lower than 0 after all effects are applied, that statistic is rounded up to 0. Any time a new effect is applied to a card, the net sum of all active effects should be recalculated."

If two Rivendell Blades are attached to a single hero, when he attacks an enemy, would its defense be reduced by 4, i.e. does the blades effect accumulate? I think its defense would only be -2 since the effect is triggered by the hero attached with the blade, not from the blade itself, but I could be wrong. What do you think?

Angus Lee said:

If so, wouldn't that mean that, as one example, two Blades of Gondolin would still only give +1 attack against orcs?

As I read it, the effect is triggered by the attack, not by the hero. So the effect remains associated with the blade but has a particular trigger. In the case of two blades on one hero the trigger applies separately to each blade and is cumulative. Given other items with very similar wording, I can't see any reason it wouldn't be cumulative.

I see what you're saying, Angus, but I agree with Anodos. A brief perusal of the rule book found this bit of text on p. 25, in the section concerning "lasting effects.":

"Multiple lasting effects may affect the same card at the same time. The order in which the lasting effects take place is irrelevant, since the net sum of all lasting effects is applied to the card."

It seems clear that two separate Blades would represent two separate lasting effects (since, while the trigger is the hero attacking, the actual defense reduction comes from the individual Blades). The "net sum" of two separate Blade penalties would be -4 Defense, and the rules seemingly allow for that sort of combination. So, I think the reduction is definitely cumulative. Load up your elves!

starhawk77 said:

Of course there aren't many enemies with that much defense so getting the full benefit will be very rare.

starhawk77 said:

This was one of the comments that caught my attention previously and drove my most recent post. How would he do this?

By paying 1 resource after he's declared as an attacker, as per his ability. Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.

Thia Halmades said:

There is an opportunity to trigger player actions between each attack (see the timing chart at the end of the rules for a more detailed breakdown). So, say you control Elladan and Elrohir, and are engaged with three enemies. Elladan (equipped with Rivendell Blade) attacks one enemy, reducing its defense by 2 and applying his attack of 3. After the attack, he can pay a resource to ready. Then, he can attack one of the other engaged foes (but not the one he just smacked). Rinse and repeat as long as he has resources to spend.

starhawk77 said:

Bomb said:

I'd think that Elladan would be best since he can restand each time he's declared as an attacker.

Good call. With his 3 attack (essentially 5 once you toss in the Blade), he'll chew through several enemies a turn.

This was one of the comments that caught my attention previously and drove my most recent post. How would he do this?

I understand how that sounds confusing. Elladan would have 3 attack STR with Elrohir out. If he had the Rivendell Blade attached, against an enemy with 2, it would almost be like attacking with 5 STR character against a 2 DEF enemy because he'd be taking away 3 HP.

Pretending the Rivendell Blade instead added +2 ATK strength to make it 5 ATK against a 2 DEF enemy, you'd be doing 3 HP damage. With Rivendell Blade, you'd be doing 3 ATK STR against a 0 DEF enemy which would also net 3 HP damage which would be the same result. Make sense?

Anodos said:

Thanks for all the reply. I haven't got the pack yet, just a glimpse at the spoiler makes me wonder this, but now I'm clear. Thank you all.