Just a quick thing realy.

The demo kit lists that it contains 5 binary charges but there are no rules for them.

The name would imply a form of mixing explosive that goes off when the 2 parts come in contact with eachother but as for how strong is anyones guess.

Anyone else had any thoughts on this?

Ravensburg said:

It's basically 5 individual demo-charges + the kit to wire them up together to a trigger, be it a pressure plate, timer or remote detonator.

I do not think that is right. Not by the wording in the book anyway. The kit lists as it containing:

5 demolition charges

5 binary charges

100m of det cord

5 presure detonators

This implys that the kit contains 10 explosive devices. 5 demo charges AND 5 binary charges.

Ravensburg said:

Well binary charges, as they are not specific about the volume of each charge, could be anything from a detonating charge for the demo charges to full blown charges themselves.

Wikipedia has the following information on said charges javascript:void(0);/*1332854343847*/ , and from my own knowledge i'd argue towards them being detonating charges as opposed to explosive charges - going on the weight of the total kit at least.

i thought the binary charges would be similar to the leads you attach to plastic explosives. imo.

deadlyhammer said:

The impression I get the that the word 'charge' in the name means it is an explosive.

to respond to that, i would ask the following:

when your car battery dies, do you get someone to give you a charge or an explosion?

i just find it odd that ffg would include 2 different kinds of explosives with no explanation or differentiation between the two. however, modern plastic explosives are stable until exposed to an primary explosive detonator. when burned or subjected to electric current they just burn. no kaboom.

so in short, we are both correct. if you were to directly translate this to in game terms though, it would mean that if you use the binary charge to blow something small (lock in a door for example), you would then be stuck with 4 primary detonators and 5 demo charges. not such a big deal if you need to use 2 demo charges in tandem to blow something big though. useful knowledge, but also worth tracking.

I would have thought that the 100m of det cord and 5 presure detonators would be enough for triggers for just 5 demo charges. This gives you a timed and a booby trap option. If the binary charges are just detonators what would be the point of the det cord?

I like the idea that the binary charges are a fixed time explosive that is weeker than the demo charges for blowing locks and people subtly. 2 harmess liquid chemicals mixing is alot quieter than 6 inches of burning det cord. This is also based on the description of binary agents from the Radicals Handbook where 2 harmess chemicals can be mixed in a victim to poison them.

And as for the car by your logic I could also (Apparently) Re-energise your cars battery with a "Demolitions Charge". I would love to see the state it is in after that one lol.

heh, that is exactly what i was getting at. you get them to charge your battery. not blow it up.

seeing as how i dont have the radicals handbook, that is good to know about the liquids you mentioned, but unless its nitroglycerin or similarly unstable explosive (and you rig it to be subjected to some kind of physical shock), the binary charge (or primary detonator as i called it earlier) would still need detcord or some other suitable primer. although, the detcord itself could just as easily be the primary detonator. now i really am scratching my head. it seems that the BC book has duplicated the purpose of some items in the demo kit.

Something like this dose not realy need a detonator as it self detonates. 2 harmless and relativly stable chemicals when mixed do explode spontaniously.

A quick example of the top of my head is potasium permanganate + Glycerine (Not nitroglycerine I may add. Just normal glycerine for bakeing will do). both of these are very stable on there own but mixed catch fire quite agresivly after about 30 seconds. after 38 millenia of improvement it dose not seem unreasonable to asume something beeter now exists. The timeing is based on the kienetics of the chemicals concerned and in theory could also be variable. It would not be alterable in the field realy but gives a pree known countdown once they mix.

Something like this dose not realy need a detonator as it self detonates. 2 harmless and relativly stable chemicals when mixed do explode spontaniously.

A quick example of the top of my head is potasium permanganate + Glycerine (Not nitroglycerine I may add. Just normal glycerine for bakeing will do). both of these are very stable on there own but mixed catch fire quite agresivly after about 30 seconds. after 38 millenia of improvement it dose not seem unreasonable to asume something beeter now exists. The timeing is based on the kienetics of the chemicals concerned and in theory could also be variable. It would not be alterable in the field realy but gives a pree known countdown once they mix.

Ravensburg said:

I don't know...I followed the link that Kasatka has in his post above.

They have a neat little video of a guy mixing a binary charge. He mixes the compounds, shakes them up a lot, then blows them up in a very controlled manner unsing some kind of detonator. Just because something is unstable, I don't think it means it automatically blows up. Then again, I know nothing about explosives. I'm not saying that it couldn't work the way you're describing, I'm just saying that I don't think it necessarily works that way.

Try this one. the exact chemicals I mentioned (But correct spelling)

I know a bit about chemistry and I have seen this done in a lab. An explosion is just a release of energy in a confined space. Gunpowder out in the open is quite boring but put it in a tightly packed tube and you have a rather nasty bomb. There are things that will sit there quite happily on theire own but do something to them and they react quite violently. White phosphorous will burn in air quite happily and explode if you try and put it out with water.

Effective but powerful weapon banned under the Geneva convention.

Ravensburg said:

Neat. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that just because something becomes unstable it automatically blows up. A compound that explodes when it is exposed to fire or impact is very dangerous to transport. Dividing it into two inert parts makes it safe for travel and bringing the two parts together won't make it automatically blow up, it just makes it unstable again and sensitive to fire or impact.

Since I've been following this thread, I've finally read the rules and have formulated an opinion:

I think the Demolitions Kit carries 10kg of explosives, 5 regular (as per the demolitions charge) and 5 binary. The advantage of the binary is you could probably use it as Ravensburg described and detonate it without needing det cord or any other detonator, but I think the advantage is its safety factor. If you look at some of the results on the critical chart - specifically energy:

"The target is completely encased in fire, melting his skin and popping his eyes like superheated eggs. He
falls to the ground a blackened corpse.
As above, except in addition, if the target is carrying any ammunition, there is a 50% chance it explodes.
Unless they can make a successful Evasion Test, all creatures within 1d5 metres take 1d10+5 Explosive
Damage. If the target carried any grenades or missiles, one round after the Damage was dealt they detonate
where the target’s body lies with the normal effects."

So I'd rule those 5 Demolition charges go off as per the rules governing demolitions, but the binary charges would not. They'd still get destroyed with the victims other gear, but at least they wouldn't add to the explosion.

Thats my 2 cents