I'm still a little confused about how exactly the ballistic mechadendrite functions.

For a half-action, or as a reaction, you can fire the shoulder mounted weapon. Limitations of "One attack action per round" apply.

What I understood from this is as follows, and this is how I play it.

The tech-priest can fire his weapon as a half action the same way he'd fire any other gun in his hand. He can also use a reaction, in reaction to an enemy's action, to fire it. For example, if an enemy shoots at him, he can react and, instead of dodging, shoot back.

However, he can't take a half action to fire his shotgun, and then take another half action to fire his ballistic mechadendrite, because this would be making two attack actions.
He can, however, use "two weapon fighting" to fire both of those weapons, or make a dual shot with them, since he's 'holding' both weapons, and that is only one attack option.

How close/far am I?

We play it and understand it in this same way as You.

Yes, the ballistic mech isn't terribly useful as such, but remember that while having one you are always armed. Unless you have quickdraw this might be important.

Also, as this appears as just another part of your inhuman body, you might very well catch someone off guard and get a surprise attack or at the very least an attack that your opponent might not be aware of before it's too late. Which means no Dodge

The tradeoff is that you lose your ability to dodge/parry that turn unless you have wall of steel or step aside.

There is something interesting regarding gun mechadendrites in inquisitors handbook, pages 68-70, Especially the Machinator Array Talent explanation.

Do remember that a ballistic mechadendrite is exactly that, a mechadendrite, a tentacle.

You can perfectly bend it around a corner and shoot blind without exposing your body at all.

If the GM won't allow it, you can then take your optical mechadendrite (you have to have one, if you don't you're doing it wrong as a tech priest), narrow it down to the width of a pencil (rulebook states so), bend both of them around a corner and shoot at something quite sneakily, without exposing your body at all. Shoot above cover, shoot through bars or fences, etc.

If you're a myrmidon, you can mount a machinegun in there and have sneaky fun.

Mormoran! THAT, just that.

And Machinator Arrays let techies have a decent option for ranged weapons.

Cymbel said:

Or, y'know, they can just pack a plasma gun and hold it in their hands. That seemed to work for me. I picked non-combat mechadendrites anyway; I think I had a Utility, Optical, and Medicae mechadendrite, and I ended up with a Servo-Arm (Yes, the one from Ascension) as well. My Techpriestess much preferred ze healing over ze hurting.

Depending on your Bionics Dodge isnt that interisting for a Techpriest (You simple lack the Agility to do so) then you can convert the Reaction to an additional Attack.

And it opens a LOT of possibilities, but only when there is NOT a compact laspistol.

Best price values I think are the steel burner (I like to call it the Las "magnum" none of the disadvantages of a handcannon but 2x the ammo)

Also the HIGH POWER flamethrower pistol (I think it is a "Destroyer"), possibly also the fury laspistol to easily suppress.

And melee weapons is useful.

Plus, having both hands free (such as to hold a shield) is great, and being able to add in supporting fire. Shame normal techies get such a horrible one.

The Steel Burner is indeed one of the best things you can put into your upgraded Mechandrite.

Ask your GM if you may add a Fire Selector (Dunno why this isnt intended for Las Weapons) and then you have 3x30 you can freely choose to shoot "normal", "overcharge" or "hot-shot" if the GM allows this Commands to your Mechandrite (Which makes Sense). The best thing, your Techi can load the Magazines for "free" and is some kind of independent if you are low on thrones or on a feral/feudal world.

Tough I recomend you to have best craftmanship Steel Burner to get rid of overcharge.

FieserMoep said:

Fire selectors are meant to let someone switch between different types of ammo, such as manstoppers, dumdums, etc. However, the way I usually see them used, people just use them as "Oh hey, now my gun holds three times as much ammo!" Lasguns have no alternative ammo apart from hotshot charge packs and overcharge packs, and even then, Black Crusade eliminated overcharge packs in favor of a variable power setting. So they don't really need them.

They also seem really silly to me. Can you imagine how ridiculous and bulky an assault rifle would look with three magazines sticking out of it? If you ask me, they should take fire selectors out of the game entirely; if you want to swap ammo types, you reload. If you want more shots before reloading, you buy extended mags (or bigger power-packs as the case may be) or a belt feed, or an ammo backpack. Simple as that.

Also, I fail to see how a Best-craftsmanship Steel Burner would perform much differently from a regular one, apart from not jamming.

Well, I imagine Fire selectors as some kind of "rail" below the magazine chamber and some kind och mechanism in reach of the thump or what ever brings the right one fire ready.

And without the Black Crusade Rules for Las Weapons this still makes sense. A hot-shot in the right moment can work wonders, and what about a sanctified las pack that you dont wanna waste but still keep ready at all times? What about a failsafe function when your weapon jams?

And the argument of "clumsy" weapons does not work in WH40k where the rool of cool aplies to nearly anything. The clumsier your weapon is, the better. Just imagine a 0.75 cal battle rifle with adamantion pointed self propelled high explosive rounds that weights 7 kg? Oh well, thats the human sized "standard" issue bolter.^^

And reload would waste an action, the fire selector would not for he is a free action.

Also, I fail to see how a Best-craftsmanship Steel Burner would perform much differently from a regular one, apart from not jamming.

Didn't you read what I wrote? I was talking about overheating.

They tried doing the rail thing in the 1940s with the German MP40, holding two magazines side-by-side in a sliding magazine housing. It was difficult and finicky to work with and jammed very frequently, and ultimately wasn't as effective as the Soviet PPSh-41, which just used a big ol' drum magazine. Just changing magazines when you run out is much easier.

A hotshot or Soubiros sanctified pack at the right moment can work wonders, but it's better to load it into a different gun such as a long-las or steel burner and use it in that manner. Or, if you have Rapid Reload, spend a half-action to load in the hotshot and the other half action to fire. If you have Quick Draw, you can draw the other gun as a free action and fire that gun instead. If you don't have Quick Draw or Rapid Reload, what are you doing in combat? As for jams, weapons jams mean there's something wrong with the gun's mechanism, meaning you need to clear the jam before you can keep firing. Even if you have multiple magazines/charge packs connected to the gun, you still have to clear the jam before the gun will work again.

A bolter is bulky, sure, but it's not excessively bulky for what it does. A lasgun weighs 4 kg, just under 9 pounds, which is roughly the same weight as a modern day M16 rifle. The M16 was specifically designed to be lightweight compared to contemporary rifles of the day such as the M14 it replaced, or the Soviet AK-47. A bolter weighs 7 kg, which is 15 pounds; the M1918 BAR, a weapon that saw use in both World Wars, weighs more than that, and the bolter fires rounds more than twice the size of the BAR's (.30 caliber versus .75 caliber) that explode, from a magazine with a greater capacity than the BAR's (BAR had 20 rounds, bolter holds 24-30 depending on the source). I'd say it's not bulky for what it does. It's also not "standard issue" for the same reason the BAR wasn't; it's heavier and more expensive than a lasgun, but it's meant for special situations where a lasgun's power simply isn't enough, and you need a little more punch.

Besides, if "rule of cool" is king, then the fire selector still loses out because three magazines sticking out of a gun looks silly. The bolter only has one mag, which looks practical and professional, or possibly a belt if you're a filthy traitor, and belt-fed weapons look awesome. Even storm bolters mounted on vehicles don't need more than two magazines, and they're mounted on vehicle pintles where their extra bulk isn't an issue. Three mags would just look ridiculous.

With the Steel Burner, however, I suppose you do have a point. I stand corrected in that regard.

I can see Las weapons having fire selectors making more sense, it is just rerouting energy, which is easier than IRL "fire selectors". I personally like it more as a special feature on special guns (like the assault lasgun holds 2 packs, the Spectre is a special autogun that is THE choice for elite autogun mercs.

Why should I take a half action (Quick Reload) to fire a single shot when I can "reload" with a free action and use Full Auto or even an Aim Action to activate Accurate on a Basic Sniper weapon? Every character would see this benefit ingame, atleast when he is ablty to handle the more bulky version of this weapon where I agree with you.

For example I am using a D'Laku Hellgun when a random Bloodletter appears from nowere. I know that this is a silly situation but just lets take it. Now I can reload my sanctified LasPack for a Half Action and shoot him with an ordinary half action or I switch with a free action and give him a 5 shot full auto burst right into the chest.

Or just imagine you are sitting in cover with a LongLas, giving some covering fire. A overcharge is quite enough to do the job when suddenly a random heavy armor guy appeared. Free action to hotshot, aim to trigger the additional 1d10 Damage for each 2 degrees of sucess and give him hell.

And on Solid Projectil Weapons the Fire Selectors is quite more usefull for the many types of ammunition. (I am jealos of that cuz I love the Warhammer Lasweapons.^^)

And the "standard" Issue was kinda ironic. But you said it, its not "bulky" for what it is supposed to do. The benefits of the Fire Triger outclass the roleplay drawbacks in many situations so it might be a worthy tool for some situations whehre you need a little more puch, as you said.^^

Boss Gitsmasha, can it be that you play Dark Heresy with Black Crusade combat rules?

Aesthetic squabbles aside, my issue is that the Fire Selector shouldn't be a free action to operate. If anything it should be a half action, because its intended purpose is to allow a gunner to switch between different kinds of ammo without having to reload. A half action doesn't take as long as a Full action reload, as is standard on lasguns and autoguns, but you still have to reach over and manipulate the magazine well. If it's a free action to operate then it's just "LOL, three times the bullets XD". Perhaps you can reduce it to a Free Action again if the gunner has Rapid Reload. It should also make the gun Unreliable, or make it lose Reliable if the gun has that; the real-life "fire selector" on the MP40 jammed frequently because it was easily fouled by dirt and dust. So Cymbel's "rerouting energy" theory has ground here; a lasgun with a fire selector would be more reliable than an equivalent SP weapon, but not as reliable as a more solidly-built conventional lasgun would be.

We argue about the WW2 problems of a fire selector in a universe where a LasGun is perhaps the most used infantry gear in the galaxy? Where Mankind fields gigantic Titans, Maschines of War, that can annihilate whole armys? A Galaxy where sucessfull bioforging has created the ultimate Soldier? I think after all the other things they have fixed, the fire selector isnt that heavy to do.

And in terms of the game, to use the fire selector and change the magazin is likley the same action as to change the firemode from Burst to Fullauto. Thats what this tool is for. And yes, it would even trippel your available Ammuniton. That is exactly one thing it does.

And yet belt feeds are still Unreliable, despite them seeing widespread usage in modern armies. Go figure.

And changing firemodes can be done by flipping a switch close to the trigger without even taking your hand off the grip. It's nowhere near as complex a process as reloading (eject spent mag, fish out fresh mag from pouch, press magazine home, chamber round).

It's also only 25 Thrones to essentially get triple the amount of ammunition. It costs exactly the same as a bayonet, a much simpler device that has been in use for hundreds of years, and the bayonet isn't even monomolecular. Is there any reason to NOT get one? You'd never have to worry about reloading ever again.

You are talking about the present. Dont try to compare this to Sci-Fi like Warhammer 40k where actualy "no" technology is proven with the knowledge we have today. So its more some kind of War-Fiction than Science-Fiction.

And the Fire Selector is also just flipping a switch, the machine does the rest. And yes, I realy wonder why nobody takes the Fire Selecotor. It realy proves that the flesh is weak.^^

But the rule is clear. At the beginning of the turn, switch ammo you desire. That is no action or reaction, its a special feature and atleast cant be called a free action, though technicaly it is one.

Honestly, out of all the tech in DH, the "Fire Selector" seems to be one of the worst, the most min-maxing and ill-thought out weapon upgrades in the book.

Do you realy think so?

Let me tell you about an Assassin dual-wielding two Nomad sniper rifels with Pistol Grips, Targeters, Recoil Gloves and Fire Selectors. Well, the Fire Selector was the most innocent thing on that…

How many people are blowing thru clips like it's going out of style? I think I have one member in my cell that actually uses the fire selector as a…well a fire selector and actually has three types of ammo in his fire selector. So my question is what weapons are your players using where they need that much ammo and how many guys are they facing if they are blowing thru so many clips?

Good question.^^

In my group the "fresh" Akolythes mostly use it to store 2 ordenary Magazines and one with Manstoppers. Later on there is more special ammonition, each one for the right situation.

In my Opnion it is not that "evil". its usefull but not gamebreaking. And every enemy can have this tool to. And the most Firefight should not take more time than two magazines.

Yeah it just doesn't seem that important with everything else. And I like how it has took over this thread when the oringinal question was about Ballistic Mechandedrites too.

FieserMoep said:

Well, you don't gain the true benefits of accurate dualwielding, let alone the accuracy bonus, so oh well

Besides, cheese is a Twin Linked Nomad (or any Hunting Rifle tbh) with Red Dot Sight, Targeter, Fire Selector, Melee Attachment, Aux GL, Exterminator Cartridge, some weapon combi-ed on it. Gets a LOT of bonus to hit, a second shot (which may or may not get the accurate bonus damage on it). And then toss on whatever high power ammo you want