I'm a new GM and I've got a PC that is playing an IH Techmarine, and besides being tough as nails to wound, his sole purpose in the game so far is to hack off as many limbs and/or body parts as he can and replace them with bionics; at such a rate that it's comical. It seems that whenever he gets XP or Requisition to spend, he's throwing away flesh and installing some chrome. Fluffy for an Iron Hands marine, I suppose, but it's extremely rapid and I don't like the idea of this marine gleefully sawing off his legs between missions.

In my mind, I would see that this sort of bionic enhancement would take place at the Forge Master's /Apothecarion and take a few weeks; a few weeks that I'm not allowing the characters to spend at the Watch Station (mainly due to the fact we're nearing only the third session and I've yet to flesh out the interior of the station and supporting NPCs). The Kill-team is constantly on a frigate/ship heading towards their next mission; ships that don't have ample facilities to allow for such self-enhancement.

Has anyone faced a bionic fetishist before? I'm looking for suggestions on how often and in what situations I should allow him to be fitted for 'new parts'? Only when he loses a limb from critical damage?

Thanks ahead of time for your advice!

You may find this thread I started helpful. My backup character is an Iron Hands librarian and I wanted to get an idea of how fast he should obtain bionics.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=179&efcid=3&efidt=617775&efpag=0

My GMs solution was that Iron Hands will upgrade rapidly - in their own chapter. The Deathwatch does not have the vast stockpiles of bionics needed to satiate the Iron Hands lust for augmentation so they get augmentations at the usual rate - to replace battle losses and as techmarine upgrades, apart from the augmentations in their chapter advance scheme such as The Flesh is Weak.

Personally, I am inclined to agree. But there are deeds in Rites of Battle that give extra bionics so those may well be worth looking into.

Great thread to reference, thank you.

Here's what I'm thinking... I'm going to limit the availability of Bionics/Cybernetics to very exceptional circumstances or critical damage since the Watch Station I've written up has just been founded and they are slowly getting in a trickle of Astartes as recruits (the Kill-team is part of the first wave of new initiates.) He already has 6 bionics (Flesh is Weak III (Iron Hands), Servo Arm, two bionic arms (one exceptional from Iron Hands chapter trapping, other bought as Techmarine starting gear).

If he or anyone else in the party suffers critical damage, or he experiences a major failure (like what Tempest mentioned) due to a perceived weakness of the flesh, then I will allow him to requisition one, and depending on the frequency that this happens the parts/full cybernetic won't arrive at the Station for a while and he may have to wait another mission's duration before getting it installed.

*In a completely different direction, since he is from the Iron Hands *and* is a Techmarine, I could allow him to attempt to craft and install his own cybernetic limbs (with potentially terrible/funny circumstances)... since I'm new to the idea of GM'ing, how might crafting such a complex device?

Off of the top of my head I'm thinking maybe during downtime, an Extended Test of 5 or more Tech-Use/Trade(Armourer) to try and create the unit from raw materials (perhaps salvaged or requisitioned), and require a total of Degrees of Success in order to create a rudimentary version of that? Ex: 15 DoG required to succeed, basic cybernetic crafted; 23+ DoG denotes an exceptional quality?

And perhaps for the install, requiring Extended Tests for Tech-Use/Medicae? If he can convince the Apothecary to help him out, maybe a shorter test or better results? I could see this part going very poorly if there's a screw-up on the dice. 8)

Read the Bionics section of the DW core book, it explains the rate at which you can obtain bionics. unless Iron Hands say otherwise (which, myself being also a IH Techmarines ATM, I don't believe it says otherwise.)

As with all things, they're subject to GM consent. If it gets out of hand, then tell the player that the current part he's trying to replace isn't available at the current point in time, or just point blank refuse, the Apothecary's saying that it's not required and then giggle at the ensuing role-play. For example, a Frigate might have an arm or two, a leg or two and a heart for emergencies, but only for emergencies. The Watch Fortress, depending on its size, may have more bionics than most Chapter Houses do just because the Deathwatch are usually involved in more action than the average Astartes.

Currently with his bionics and Techmarine talents/toughness bonus, etc, this Rank 1 Techmarine requires more than 30 damage (without Pen) to hurt him when hit in the chest region... oy. Everything I've thrown at the KT so far hasn't even hurt him yet.

I wouldn't consider the Servo-Arm an implant. It's attached to the armor, not fused to the Techmarine's flesh. Unlike normal AdMech mechadendrites, which are fused to their implanted cyber-mantle and potentia coil.

I personally doubt he's got much more than 28 in the Chest, to be honest. Flesh is Weak can only give so much, and if he's been grabbing that then he hasn't been improving his Toughness Bonus. Depends on his armour, as Errant is basically Tank Marine Armour, and remember that Bionic Lungs and Heart don't stack, it's just a flat +2 Toughness Bonus. That's 28 at most, and that's allowing for a Toughness of 60. If his Toughness is higher, he's nearly Rank 2 anyway.

In these instances, there's two or three things you can start doing.

Escalating engagements. Not a preferable thing to do especially at earlier levels of the game and should be reserved for crowning moments of awesome.

Hide dice rolls, and become the GM is a cheating bastard trope.

Disable the character somehow, usually by having him engage with a big gribbly one on one, or by forcing the players to split the party with terrain mash ups. Don't be a **** about it and make him fall unconscious because of fatigue, make him work to stay with the team once in a while, and the best one for this is, don't attack him. Disable the other members, and keep him pinned. Tau Stealth team flanks and pins him while the Firewarriors engage the Kill Team in earnest. Tyranids bombard him while Hormagaunts and Warriors attack the main force. Ork Flashgitz take pot shots at him while the Nobs charge the others. Keep him either out of the fight or just ignore him like that.

After DMing Dungeons and Dragons and several other roleplays, I've learned that if you want to hurt the party, use AOE, disable the tank and focus the people you can punch through the face with your monsters. Finally, when the next mission starts and he wants to requisition more bionics, say that the Frigate is conveniently out of bionics because someone seems to have requested all their use first. Get him to use some various other equipment instead.

Also quick note, it should be an exceptional bionic HAND, not ARM

Chaos psyker with the equivalent to Machine Curse. Or give the Tau/nids something like haywire rounds.

Lock him down.

From my point of view the easyest way to calm down your techmarine from taking cyberware is to forget the req cost of implants.

In my game PC can't req for cyber, or what the hell they give it back after mission? They lose part of their req at each mission start and if more cyber than req lose body parts?

No, cyber can't be taken so lightly, SM must be in dire need to get some and the for free for a remplacement.

For an IH techmarine you can maybe make him craft his cyber, making sub plot to get some material, ore, technology,... then craft the cyber and if failed, then get back to find new materials, if succeed then make craftmanship equal to success roll, each 2 margin giving 1degre of craftmanship.

0 to 1 : Common

2 to 3 : exeptionnal

4 to 5 : master

Thebigjul said:

That sounds terrible convoluted and against some of the point of bionics in general. Bionics aren't just replacements. To the Iron Hands, they're pure upgrades, other chapters view them with disdain, especially since Bionics will not be crafted by anything but a Forgemaster, or the Mechanicus equivalent. The materials are the same materials used as those in a Bolter or the ammunition, and is supplied directly from the Administratum and their supplicants.

Besides which, it is possible for Marines to specifically ask for various items for purpose, over just player greed. >.>

If space marines got only benefits from acquiring bionics, why would they not be encouraged in the background to do so?

My explanation: bionics do not only give benefits. And they are costly.

Bionics replace flesh and bone that has been crafted by the space marine's geneseed, a fate that most would shun if they had a choice.

Bionics require maintenance and thus take away from a marine's long term field utility. Isolation for years on a xenos world becomes a daunting prospect if anything happens to your systems or repair tools.

Bionics are vulnerable to a new set of attacks. Haywire effects and machine curses. A vulnerability that many marines will seek to avoid.

The Iron Hands are regarded in background as bizarre by most other chapters precisely because they go against these principles. To the point they are regarded as having a weakness in their addiction to bionics and hatred of their Emperor-granted flesh.

Well the big problem, often restated with bionics RAW, is that you pay once out of req to take a piece of gear you never give back. Which works completely different from requisitioning anything else.

I don't think the problem is with other Chapters or Specialties seeking bionics. The GM should be more than happy to point out how lots of replacement doesn't fit with the culture of the Blood Angels or whatever. But for Iron Hands and Techmarines, the replacement is a big part of the culture, so the only avoidance is either waiting for new errata on the matter or GM fiat of "no, not available here," which is totally legit if you're on a small ship or something...but harder to justify when you're back on Erioch or something.

If you're concerned about rate of upgrades, impose a limit per rank and/or per renown level, which could reflect limits on supply and being trusted with more implants. A newly-christened Iron Hand isn't going to get to replace 100% of his body with metal immediately. he has to prove that he's worthy of the upgrades by surviving and fighting.

The great thing is, we're not going to Erioch for a long time. I had these boys start out on a new Watch Station that I wrote the background for... no esoteric shipments, just the basic while I learn the game system better.

I will give them rewards now and again, but I'm just trying to keep this guy from becoming an out-of-control Frankenstein.

Thanks for all the insight. I am definitely going to think of ways to bring him down, but not kill him... immediately.

Hey, does the servo-arm count as improving the TB to the body, and the auspex to the head?

Schedule an emergency mission soon after returning from one - if he's got a bionic half installed... too bad, he's got a job to do.

Also feel free to play with the primarch's curse. The Iron Hands despise weakness. If he fails a couple of rolls that others pass in situations where his bionics give him a bonus, perhaps force him to make a willpower roll or start getting into a rage/depression cycle about the impurities of the machine as opposed to sacred Astartes flesh. Alternatevly, only let him buy new bionics if his sacred Astartes flesh lets him down (fails a lot of climb checks, so gets a new set of legs. Fails Awareness checks, gets an in-built auspex)

bogi_khaosa said:

Servo-Arm: no. It's not even a real implant. It's attached to the power armor. It can be taken off. It's not stuck to the Marine's body. It's not an implant.

Augur array: I'm inclined to say no but the RAW implies yes.

I'd limit the TB gain to bionic replacements but YMMV.

I thought the servo-arm was connected via implants in the tech-marine's body?

bogi_khaosa said:

Nope.

DW Core, p. 28: "Techmarine [standard-issue wargear] . . . Astartes servo-arm (as a part of his power armour) . . ." Emphasis added.

DW Core, p. 176: "with the exception of servo-harnesses and servo-arms (which can connect to and detach from external ports), cybernetics are permanent." Emphasis added.

DW Core, p. 177: "Ports for these detachable appendages [servo-Arms] are installed at the shoulder, and the Battle-Brother’s armour must also be upgraded with more powerful gyro-stabilisers to use one effectively."

DW Core, p. 177: "Like a servo-arm, a full servo-harness integrates with the Techmarine’s power armour and is controlled through the same spine interface that makes him one with his armour."