Hi everyone.

My group has just started the third adventure in one of the FFG trilogies that has a reputation for being rather combat heavy. Our GM offered us all 'Fearless' as an elite advance for 200xp because we are a fairly martially oriented group with low average willpower scores and he thinks we need it.

So it would make me immune to Fear and Pinning, which would be awesome, BUT, I then have to succeed at a willpower test to disengage from combat or back down from a potentially violent situation. Given my PCs's high intelligence that just doesn't fit. But just because he prefers to 'pick his fights', that doesn't mean he should be afraid of scary things when so far he has been really successful at wasting them. So far I don't think anyone has taken the GM up on his offer.

How has this worked out in you games? I have already spent 250xp to get my WP up to the lofty total of 26, I have got 'Resistance - Fear' which helps, and I can't really spare 500 to get to WP31. Will buying fearless just get me dead really fast? My group already relies on my character to take most the risks and lead by example so I need him to be strong in the face of scary stuff, but he is too smart to want to fight everything and not back down when it is going badly for us.

How have other groups handled this? It has always been one of my peeves about the system that all the combat characters poo their pants and run away at the first sign of anything scary leaving the less martially minded scratching thier heads and wondering what all the fuss is about and why they have to fight the 'deamon' or whatever without the tough guys help.

Finally, if I did take it, what about the 200xp I spent on Resistance - Fear. Seems like a waste.

Haha! Half my group has Fearless, but they seem to have forgotten about the "never back down from a hostile situation" part.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention

Darth Smeg said:

Oh no! Dropping fellow Acolytes in the poo is HERESY Zakalwe!

Zap! Zap! Zap!

That's the trade off. You can either go the Insanely Faithful/Nerves of Steel route, or the Fearless route. One isn't fool proof, the other keeps you in combat when you don't want to be.

BYE

Zakalwe said:

Not at all, INTERROGATOR Zakalwe! Your dilligence in conforming to the Lex Imperialis and your total lack of hesitation in turning in suspected Heretics even from within your own circles are the signs of a true servant of the Inquisition! Consider yourself commended and promoted

It can be a problem, but as has been previously stated, that is the trade-off. The talent itself means that, for whatever reason, the character no longer has a healthy fear for mind-breakingly horrific things. Without this, s/he can lose perspective in battle and believe themselves the equal of something they cannot hope to best.

I can see your point about Intelligence coming into play. Perhaps, if you put forward a solid case, you could substitute Willpower checks for Intelligence checks when disengaging from combat. Your character has logically weighed their chances and, though they are not afraid of the three Heralds of Khorne bearing down on them, they decide they are unequal to the situation given they are alone and armed only with cutlery.

On the other hand, maybe Willpower is more abstract here, for example taking the place of your natural fight or flight response. You see a Chaos Marine, and you're scared, and your body is getting you ready to flee before you've even made a conscious decision. If there is no fear, you're not in that mindset from the beginning. You may be rapidly engaged in combat, and if you are utterly Fearless, even a smart person could overestimate their chances and stay when they should sensibly run.

I rather like the balancing factor of finding it a struggle to back down from a fight. It means Fearless isn't a win-all Talent, given what a significant part of the game it alters.

Thanks for the input fellow Acolytes.

Does anyone know the math on how good a stat needs to be to make a re-roll viable?

Cheers

Interogator Z.

Yes.

The trick is to turn it around and look at the probabilites of failures. Say you have a WP of 40. Chance of failing a challenging test is 60%, or 0,6. Chance of failing the re-roll is also 0,6 but the chance to fail them both is 0,6*0,6 which is 0,36. So the chance of NOT failing a challenging WP test at WP40 with 1 reroll is 1-0,36 which is 0,64. Or 64% if you like. So the re-roll does not double your chances, but does increase them by 24 percentiles.

We can do the same little exercise with different stat levels:

WP 20: Chance of failing both rolls = 0,8*0,8 = 0,64. Chance of NOT failing both (ie. succeeding one of them) = 1 - 0,64 = 0,36 = 36%
So a re-roll at 20% is "only" worth 16%

WP 30: Chance of 2 Failures = 0,7*0,7 = 0,49. Chance of succeeding = 0,51.

WP 50: Chance of 2 Failures = 0,5*0,5 = 0,25. Chance of succeeding = 0,75

Making a little table then, with Skill level, Chance of failing (twice, with reroll) and chance of succeding (on at least one of the rolls):

WP | F% | S%
20 | 64% | 36%
30 | 49% | 51%
40 | 36% | 64%
50 | 25% | 75%
60 | 16% | 84%
70 | 9% | 91%

Comparing the value for WS with the vaule under S% shows the increase in success chance given by the re-roll.

So I guess it means what you mean by viable. A re-roll at 40% is clearly better than at 20, but even so it represents an increase in probability of success similar to 3 stat advancements (which represents more XP than the re-roll talent). It peaks in "value" at skill lvl 50, then it starts having less impact again (although still very useful)

Thanks for that Darth Smeg, your service to the Emperor has been noted. I'm kicking myself for the blonde moment with the maths though, especially because my hair is black with a few greys and figuring that out should have been easy for me.

So given: WP26 (stop laughing*), Resistance-Fear(+10), and Insanity Bonus+9**

Then for 200xp (Insanely Faithful) I have a 70% chance of resisting fear or 83% with my fate point. I have to say I like that a whole lot more than 200xp for Fearless and only a 26% chance of running away when the **** hits the fan (45% with fate point).

Given what the PCs have been briefed on in the first session of the adventure (Dead Stars), I'm quite keen on 'run for it' being an option.

Now all I have to do is convince the GM give Insanely Faithful after my PC publicly stated last session that The Emperor is the greatest of Humaniti's warriors and NOT a God!

* 26 IS after a +5 increase as well!
**This is a house rule our GM bought in because all the PCs are so weak of mind, we get insanity divided by two as a bonus against fear.

There is a rule somewhere that makes you immun to certain levels of fear depending on how crazy you are.
It's something about the tenth-digit of your insanity score. But I don't quite remember, because it's been some time since I played a pc with high insanity.

Umbranus said:

It's in the core rulebook in the insanity rules.

Aye. More specifically it states that you are immune to Fear ratings less than or equal to half your "Insanity Bonus", where "Insanity Bonus" is the 10's digit of your Insanity Point total.

Example: 26 Insanity Points gives a IB (Insanity Bonus) of 2, which grants immunity to Fear(1). To be immune from Fear(2) you would need at least 40 Insanity Points, unless you practice rounding. (not sure what the RAW says about this).

So the OP isn't far away from being immune to fear (1) with his (if I understood correctly) insanity score of 18.

Zakalwe said:

Well, that is for a Challenging Fear test. But as things get progressively more scary, you get a nice penalty to that Fear test, which brings your probabilities down to less-likely areas.

While Fearless on the other hand...