I know there are similar threads out there to this one. I just wanted to bring up that going through the news archives, the last three expansions for AH have all been announced in February. Well, February has come and gone with nothing new on the horizon. I really hope this is the calm before something big (not new edition big).

AnotherHorrorFan said:

In the last couple of years, we've witnessed the outstanding quality of FFG creations decline. Descent sunk with Sea of Blood; Mansions of Madness had terrible issues (both with the base game and the FA expansion), forcing the company to send out tons of replacements; Arkham itself suffered for some gremlins here and there. Most of these errors were due to a bad playtesting (probably made because they were in a hurry just to sell some more stuff). Plus, with the passing of time, new lines of products have seen the light. In my opinion:

a) they have too many games / lines out to be able to keep on working on their bestselling lines at the usual pace

b) they hopefully want to avoid big mistakes a la Forbidden Alchemy. Hence, will probably playtest some of the games much better. And this requires time.

Plus, some years ago, AH was the only Lovecraftian boardgame they had in their catalogue. Now they host a whole line called Arkham Files: books, minis, Mansions of Madness, Elder Sign (in the ES forum, they said Richard Launius had said they were working on a couple of ES expansions). And all these products refer to more or less the same public. So, it's kinda normal that AH main line slows down a little

Think of miniatures as of AH expansions.

You need to start looking at some of the custom material online. Try Vermont Horror.

I don't know IMO at some point there does need to be an end, and this seems like a good place.

I only hope they don't come out with a re-edition from here. The game has so much to savor at this point, and Miskatonic really brought it full circle.

Not to mention, RL seems to have some other things going strong, Pirates vs. Dinosaurs, Defenders, etc...he may be ready to move on, although don't quote that it's only speculation.

I hope they keep releasing more expansions, Ive been noticing the absence of that giddy feeling that comes with opening a new AH box and wondering whats in it.

North_Wolf said:

::laughter:: I know the sensation, my friend :-) But I guess we'll see something announced this year, maybe in September. Or during Arkham Nights :-)

As others have said, there is something to be said for bringing an end to pointless expansionism. I have nothing against new expansions for a game, as long as they have something legitimate to offer to the franchise. I'll admit I haven't really been following the last few AH expansions, but what I've heard about them doesn't exactly sound essential to the game. Nice to have, sure. Cool ideas, sure. But not anything that really revolutionizes the game or addresses any specific shortcoming.

Making expansions just for the sake of selling more expansions is something some people will object to strongly. I'm not one of those; I recognize that FFG is a business and I don't really blame them for trying to make as much money as they can. After all, if I don't think an expansion is worthwhile, I can just choose to not buy it. No need to raise a fuss. However, as Julia pointed out, FFG has been doing something worse than that lately - they've been cranking out expansions so fast that they've been making some truly horrendous mistakes in the process. Mistakes that literally make the expansions unplayable. That's not just greed, that's negligence. It's the sort of thing that can ruin the entire company's reputation, not just one or two game lines.

And so, they appear to have slowed down on releasing expansions in general - not just for AH but for most of their high turn-over games, it seems. I see this as a good thing. They know they have a problem and they're doing something about it. Perhaps we will see new expansions for AH in the future, and perhaps we won't. As long as any such expansions are well built and solidly tested, I'll see it as time well spent.

As for a new edition, FFG has not historically been the sort of company to release a new edition just because they ran out of ideas to expand the old one. Witness Runebound, whose last expansion was published well prior to Miskatonic Horror. Well before the announcement of Descent Second Edition. And yet, there has been no Runebound 3rd edition announcement. Why? In my opinion, it's probably because they don't have anything to add. I look at Arkham Horror and I see a game in a very similar position. It has its flaws, sure, but nothing that's really serious. There's more than enough material now to maintain replayability, and the basic game mechanics are solid as is. I don't think they'll make a new edition unless they have some improvements to add, and right now I can't think of any such improvements that warrant a new edition to fix.

If this is the end of new material for Arkham Horror, then it's a good place to stop. Enough material to keep people busy for a good long while. And for thsoe who truly need more, there will always be homebrews.

Steve-O said:

I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you said, but definitely not this part. Okay, maybe there's a case to be made that Lurker is mostly just cool ideas (though, in head-to-head comparison I'd say it's still more essential and revolutionary than Black Goat or Kingsport (or, for that matter, Dark Pharaoh)), but Miskatonic addresses the crap out of specific shortcomings, and Innsmouth both addresses and revolutionizes.

subochre said:

Agreed, even though I think the Lurker is completely broken (and I love cannibalizing Black Goat's corruption deck for heralds and AOs).

I'd still love to see some more monsters and AOs and heralds. If they were good. And cursed items. I would be so thrilled if there were cursed items in the game...

Rather sad if AH is finally over in official development... But personally, I still have my fingers crossed that there's some life in it still.

I can definitely whiff a new edition in the air - minis need a new board to be shown off on, and the collectors edition War of the Ring comes to mind, perhaps a giant Necronomicon, bound in the flesh of Chinese workers. But that would definitely imply the line is done.

But is it? Im not so sure. Arkham is a huge seller, why kill the spawn of the cash cow, especially if you are, as widely supposed and alleged, scaling back quantity output to address quality issues? More than one investigator has come a cropper just when they thought it was safe, and the tentacled one has a nasty habit of regenerating...

Steve-O said:

So do I. And not seeing monthly MoM PoD expansions coming up, or newly announced games being shipped yet, all these things encourages our hope for more attention in the games to come.

Let me stress Subochre and Avi's PoV: most of the small cards expansions for Arkham produced recently (Lurker, Black Goat) have (some) major designing issues (Black Goat is honestly horrible), but the two bix boxes, Innsmouth and Miskatonic, are brilliant. So, in case you feel the desire of expanding your Arkham collection, don't be afraid to pick up any of these: you won't regret it

Julia said:

I know that you're summarizing others' opinions, but out of curiosity, what makes BGotW "horrible"? Also, what's so bad about LatT? That's one of my favorite small expansions =X

00000100 said:

1) Black Goat is "horrible" because the primary mechanics don't work, and by that I mean, never activate. In order to see a Corruption card, you have to either join the Cult of a Thousand, or play with the Herald.

How does one join the Cult? One Encounter at the Cave, one at the Isle, two in the Woods. By this time, people have TOWERING piles of Encounter Decks, so even finding an invitation is so many times harder than finding a Silver Twilight Membership. And then, even if you DO locate an invite, nobody who wants to WIN the game wants to PAY for a membership. But let's say, just out of curiosity, you do have a membership. How many times do you visit the Isle, Cave, or Woods when there ISN'T a Gate on it? And did the Cult Encounter really thrill you when you finally did? (Just typing that all out made it feel like I was accomplishing Joining the Winning Team, the most grueling of Missions.)

If you play with the Herald, expect a MEAT GRINDER that could be over in as little as 10-12 turns. That last thing you're going to be worrying about is whether or not you get to enjoy your Corruption cards as you SCRAMBLE to seal before it's over. (Doom Tokens during Monster Surges is just so inane!)

Aside from that, some say that the rest of the Encounters and/or Mythos have little bearing on the theme of the box at all. I personally think that Call Ancient One is the stupidest spell ever conceived (right up there with Massa Di Requiem Per Shuggay, the stupidest Unique Item). But the Common Items are okay, and Black Goat did start a trend: Gate Bursts that don't require any specific expansion board to be in play. But Lurker does that too, and thus nothing in Black Goat is honestly worth the price of admission.

2) Many dismiss Lurker solely because of their disappointment in the Herald. They learned very quickly how to exploit the crap out of the so-called Dark Pacts, and declare them as broken as Patrice. They do not fear the Reckoning Deck, since the worst it can do is devour them, which is often considered a tactical strategy. Never mind what fun and variety these can add to a game: they make the game too easy to win, because there is NO CHOICE but to exploit them to victory.

Never mind the fact that the new Gate Tokens are infinitely superior to the old ones, especially the mobile ones. Never mind the fact that Lurker provides nifty Spells that assist other players during THEIR actions, increasing cooperation along the same lines as Relationship cards. Never mind the fact that Lurker not only has more Arkham-Only Gate Bursts, but it has fantastic Rumors and DUAL Gate Openings! The Lurker Herald sucks, and so there goes the baby with the bathwater.

Yes, I exaggerate for sarcastic effect, but it seems that whenever the Lurker box comes up, all anyone wants to talk about is the Herald. The difference is, unlike the Black Goat box, when you take away the Herald, everything else in the box WORKS.

jgt7771 said:

Let's be honest, corruption cards are the most common way IMO to get a membership.

jgt7771 said:

Finally no more free turns . And 2-3 doomers extra per game isn't all that bad.

Dam said:

So if I have a Corruption, I can get a Membership, but to get a Corruption, I have to have a Membership first? The Chicken and the Egg would be proud.

Dam said:

Finally no more free turns . And 2-3 doomers extra per game isn't all that bad.

Free turns...? Ladies and gentlemen, longtime veteran Dam, Champion of the Black Goat Herald, Patron Saint of Speed Arkham. "Monsters do not win games...SEALS WIN GAMES!!!" >boots me into pit<

I'm just fine letting those 2-3 extra doom tokens get delayed until after Turn 12, so I can have a few moments for all those extraneous things my flighty heart desires, like Combat, Personal Stories, and Stable Location Encounters.

jgt7771 said:

Dam said:

Let's be honest, corruption cards are the most common way IMO to get a membership.

So if I have a Corruption, I can get a Membership, but to get a Corruption, I have to have a Membership first? The Chicken and the Egg would be proud.

Dam said:

Finally no more free turns . And 2-3 doomers extra per game isn't all that bad.

Free turns...? Ladies and gentlemen, longtime veteran Dam, Champion of the Black Goat Herald, Patron Saint of Speed Arkham. "Monsters do not win games...SEALS WIN GAMES!!!" >boots me into pit<

I'm just fine letting those 2-3 extra doom tokens get delayed until after Turn 12, so I can have a few moments for all those extraneous things my flighty heart desires, like Combat, Personal Stories, and Stable Location Encounters.

Where is this proud chicken and egg? I WILL EAT THEM BOTH!!! But which one will I eat first...

jgt7771 said:

1) Interesting, I never thought about that. However, you mentioned "...some say that the rest of the Encounters and/or Mythos have little bearing on the theme of the box at all..." Well, that's okay IMO. New, un-themed content is better than stale, themed content. I'd rather have the core game and BGotW than just the core game. I think it's just a further issue with dilution that can be seen with Dunwich/Innsmouth if there's no Miskatonic. Speaking of which, you would think that FFG would be aware of this and remedy the situation in Miskatonic by granting more chances to get cult membership, interesting.

2) TBH, I've never played with Lurker as the herald, so I had no idea. What I really like about the expansion is what you mentioned later; the new gates are SWEET, relationship cards are a really interesting twist, and all the mythos cards are awesome.

Thanks for the info!

jgt7771 said:

This was not what I meant to say, Jgt. I really like the Lurker, it's probably the best small box expansion after King in Yellow.

You have to relate the issues I'm about to highlight to the lack of playtesting I was referring to in some previous post. The point is that the Herald could have been fixed very easily by introducing the clause "power cannot be spent in the turn it's gained". And they didn't consider the fact that moving gates could enter vortices.

These are two little things that can easily be fixed with a FAQ (the latter) or a houserule (the former). But my point is that these two issues are so *evident* that game designers should have noticed them in the designing phase. And immediately fixed.

So, this - for me at least - it's a proof they didn't playtest the game long enough before putting it on the market.

Does the game need to be bigger and more complicated? No. Does it need more new "chapters" in the story? Yes.

I don't use all the expansions at once- only one at a time (with some generic elements from the others thrown in, like Relationships or Personal Stories) Maybe this is cause I play mostly with 1-2 people max.

To me an Expansion is the equivalent of an AD&D "module", except it's replayable many times. I hope they keep coming out with expansions, I look forward to them! Maybe it's up to the fans- I can't wait for the next awesome fan-made expansion like Vermont Horror....

jgt7771 said:

Nah, to get Corruption, you kill hexagon monsters. Of course, you have to use the Herald, but that's kinda the point, since A) with it you always get a hex monster and B) they don't leave otherwise (and C) Dark Young move!!!)

jgt7771 said:

I don't know, I can get PS completed in my games decently enough (lasting generally 14 turns max). Of course, I don't go for the inanely stupid ones like Jenny, Hank or Vincent who have to give up a seal for crap that's not even warm.

00000100 said:

What I really miss in the latest small box expansions is the theme. Do mythos or encounters cards tell any story ? Not at all.. really nothing aside from the heralds. You may know that "the lurker at the threshold" is a novel (that I really enjoyed). Where is Misquamacus ? Where is the Whateley family ? Where is Billington's House ? The frogs ? The tower ? The insanity ? The elder sign ? The flying beast ? The story is filled with cool stuff and none has been used. Such a pity.

As for the cult of the black goat, the same logic applies. Nothing really apart from a cult that is so secret that no one ever encounters it.

The heralds of both boxes are cool (even if the lurker is broken, you can easily fix it), but there are no more story telling in these boxes. Check out the King in Yellow or the Pharaoh cards, you will see a whole different world.

Julia said:

I don't know if you're aware, but a vortex counts as a gate for this purpose, so moving gates can't enter vortexes.

Tibs said:

Yeah, I'm completely aware of this (maybe I worded badly my sentence?). I just wanted to highlight that they didn't write a single line in the rules about vortices / moving gates interaction.

amikezor said:

Given your mention of salient plot points of said novel, I assume you are also aware that the story was written by August Derleth, not HPL proper.

Really, my biggest qualm with Arkham in general is the fact that it focuses WAY too little on Lovecraft's work, instead giving more attention to Derleth. IMHO, he was a hack and his stories shouldn't be considered part of the overall mythos, but that's just me. (Introducting a Christian view, regardless of how you feel about religion, was clearly not part of HPL's original intentions with his work.) Lovecraft wrote a whole cycle of stories about Randolph Carter and the Dreamlands, and yet all we have is one measly other world. Yeah, sure, there's also the Plateau of Leng and Unknown Kadath (both of which amounting to a pretty small location overall compared to R'lyeh and The Dreamlands), but the Dreamlands should, again, IMO, be more than just one other world. I'd really like to see a Dreamlands board expansion where you can travel to Celephaïs and meet King Kuranes; where it is possible to be kidnapped by strange merchants in humped turbans and taken to the dark side of the moon to be rescued by cats; where an objective is to scale Ngranek to gain clue tokens after seeing the face of a God; where you can purchase ferry to Inganok and see the onyx quarries of the Temple of the Ancient Ones. This stuff writes itself! And yet, we have whole expansions dedicated to the (IMO) garbage that Derleth wrote, dichotomizing the pantheon of Ancient Ones into good vs. evil, as opposed to the bitterly indifferent one that HPL created. (Don't misunderstand me; I still like Lurker as well as The King in Yellow and others; I'm merely wondering why FFG would focus on Robert W. Chambers' and Derleth's contributions to the mythos while there is still a host of content to be farmed from Lovecraft's stories proper. Hell, Lovecraft only mentioned Shub-Niggurath in passing a few times, and the entity was mainly fleshed out in stories that he ghostwrote for other authors [which he almost did satirically and probably should be excluded from the canon anyway] and by Derleth and Ramsey Campbell, but there's a whole expansion dedicated to it.)

So, my ranting aside, to get back on topic, there's still a lot of cool stuff that can be done with Arkham Horror. If FFG isn't going to publish further expansions, that's all well and good, but I'd really like to see (and might just make myself) some more general stuff.

[EDIT: To give credit where credit is due, Derleth did a lot of really important work in keeping Lovecraft's work alive by creating Arkham House to publish most of his stories shortly after his death, and for that I thank him. However, all of his "posthumous collaborations" rub me the wrong way.]