Yes i said it...ive found a few various pages online and been doing research into them for a few weeks now aquiring all the info i can.....I intend on building a full roster of Squat vessels and tech for use in the RT and DH campaigns i run...since it has been said they arent extinct...meerely assimilated into the Imperium now after the Nids had their snacks...That leaves the door wide open to encountering and using Squat gear....Something i fully intend on taking advantage of.

What im looking to do is to get some input from fellow gamers ( GMs and players ) that are familiar with the squats...to cohort with..hehehe to set up the designs so that once compiled...i can present them on the Dark Reign website ( full squat personal weaponry/armours/gears and ships with ship equipment and components

Any takers?

Ill tell you now that after reading all ive found so far on the Squats that their ships WILL have higher armour values than Imperial ones of same size...and their weapons will fire longer range ( prolly like 25% ) than same....as well the checks required for a squat engineer to repair any component or piece of equipment will be done ( generally ) at a bonus ( since they actually know HOW it works and WHY ) of likely +10% or so as well as doing it in only HALF the time of a tech-priest ( since squats ARE smarter and more tech savy than ANY tech priest AND they DONT do the incompetent rituals for every little thing...they just get the damned job done ) So they will be of GREAT use to ANY rogue trader as well as Inquisitor for obvious reasons....

Now then..having given the basic ideas out...who would be interested in collaborating to do this and make it as decently Fannon as possible?

hmmm i'd make squat ships crampt for normal humans, with more space. why have a 12 feet high cooradors when you are 5 feet tall.squats always seemed more practical to me than humans. smaller "dead" spaces means you can cram more stuff into the same amount of space. so say a lunar class cruiser has 75 space as a human ship. it has 80 as a specially built squat ship. certain components would also change size, like crew quarters, barracks, ect. humans and "taller" creatures suffer penalities when on board, try fighting when you can't stand up stright, or swing your sword overhanded.

maybe less power costs to components, if you know how it works, you can make it more efficient. and with out all the lights, alcoves and other bells and wistles of the mechancus.

just a few ideas.

Just a note on techpriests. Depending on which bits of background you use, their maintenance rituals are anywhere between completely timewasting superstition, degenerate ways to recall actual maintenance ("First the red rune, then the green rune, or the machine spirit will anger! (i.e. explode), protection against the warp or obsessive attention to safety. The latter being critical when warp technology is involved ("That gellar field does NOT go on until the rituals are complete or every soul onboard will be endangered!")

The higher level techpriests and Magi generally have a better idea of the theory behind why all these technological miracles work, but you don't need to understand the physics behind a warp engine to do basic rote maintenance. That and knowledge can be literally dangerous in the 40k universe. A radical ideology or a possessed machine can escalate to worlds having to be burned.

I can see the squats as being more efficient but possibly more likely to run afoul of horrors of 40k technology since they don't fear the technology as much (and sometimes you really should).

Squat aesthetics are going to be pretty different to Imperial. Even more emphasis on tough ships (Imperial ones are pretty sturdy to begin with). Possibly not as fast. A few truly exotic technologies such as Warp Cores and a lot of well built and powerful cannons. They might not build the larger ships classes as often as Imperials, they simply can pack more into the smaller versions.

Good ideas all..

As for what ive found and tend to agree with so far ( found a great page somewhere a few days ago ( hunting for it again ) that gave me an entire fleet worth of ships from battleship size to raiders ) But i do agree with the ideas of making them stronger armoured than Imperials and with better and unique weaponry..though i also agree on the loss of some speed as an offset...as for the vaulted ( compared to them ) ceilings and lower ones..that is an idea though im not sure just how much lower id take them...squats arent THAT much shorter than avg humans...

I also agree with the components not taking up quite as much space or power ( perhaps they could be considered best quality components simply due to squat knowledge and crafsmanship skill. thereby automatically garnering a reduction in space and power requirements ( say no more than 25% less space and power reduction ( never below 1 power though for components and 3-5 for weaponry ) as a simple rule of thumb.

Im considering reducing the overall speed of the squat ships by 25% vs imperial counterparts...but some of the benefits id use as standard would be Retro-Thrusters ( to make their ships more inately maneuverable...cmon now..these guys are miners by trade and they wouldve applied that craft to ship building principals as well...highly durable..easy to maintain and agile enough to get the job done with minimal hassle...)

But at the same time im leaning opposite ( making their ships slightly faster or keeping the speed rates the same as Imperials...reason is simple...they have better drive tech...remember the squats NEVER LOST their drive tech like the Ad Mech did...so i consider ALL the squat warp drives etc as archeotech or more ancient and efficient than equivalent Ad Mech designs

As for the squat weaponry...

Damage: for equivalent weapon types im considering comparable to or greater than Imperials by likely an extra 25% ( that means a 1d10+3 battery shot would be a 1d10+6 shot..not that big a difference but it will tear the enemy apart faster )

Range: as opposed to equivalent Imperials...im actually leaning at keeping it the same or increasing it some...( much like the archeotech components are always longer range than current models...likely +25% again(rounding up ) so for example it would turn a range 9 sunsear lance battery into a range 12 or a range 6 macrocannon into a range 8 )

Thing to remember is simple...the squats had their own original STC cores they never lost...( till the nids ate them out of house and home..lol )...but their engineers all actually knew how to build what was in their field to build..and its highly unlikely the nids overran all the std core locations the squats had...i dont buy that one and even if i did...sorry but the nids wouldve left it the hell alone as it wasnt organic or useful to them....so the cores would be still sitting somewhere on the old remains of the homeworlds...and i KNOW the squats wouldve gone back and gotten that tech ( and the ad mech wouldve stopped at nothing to get them as well if they realized what was sitting there...can we say adventure idea for massive profit factors anyone...<evil grin>

Because the squats had original STCs ALL their tech will be better....because they actually know how it really works due to never losing the information...their tech will be better...

because they pissed off the Ad mech by not sharing the STCs OR venerating the Emperor the same OR machine spirits...likely the Ad mech had some influence in the squats overall destruction so they could aquire the STCs after the nids finished with the planet and had moved on...it would make the perfect excuse for them to come in...and best chances of finding the STCs intact ( since nids dont mess with machines unless theres a bio-orgainc inside it they can assimilate ) they would be the race most likely to simply ignore the STCs entirely...Necrons would obliterate it..so it does make sense and at least one occasion in past the Ad Mech ( with inquisition help ) altered the course of a hive fleet to send them somewhere else by means of exterminatus to a shrine world ( sending the hive fleet into ork space instead of imperial )

Cobramax76 said:

Er. Wrong. The Squats had retained a large number of STC technologies that the AdMech had lost, yes. There is no fluff that indicates they had a working, fully functional STC library. They were also quite happy to let the Mechanicus investigate said technologies, as long as they paid for the priviledge - which is the major reason the Squats got so wealthy. Like many lost colonies, the Ecclesiarchy found a way to fold their ancestor worship into the worship of the Emperor, justifying that the Emperor was the original ancestor, the clanlord that watched over all of them as they joined their ancestors.

Actually they did have STC according to fluff...your forgetting ONE very important RULE they had according to the fluff...ALL the colonies were given STC so they could be as self sufficient as possible in event it was needed...That would include ALL the squat worlds/colonies that the original miners created before the high gravity reduced their height. That is how it was done back during the mass colonizations..EVERY ship/group had an STC core to ship off with it...And if they had let the Ad Mech peruse the files then the Ad mech is sitting on the tech ( no great surprise )..as for the imperial creed...the squats know it to be the bull that it is...The squats views are same as space marines...that the Emperor was a very special gifted MAN..not a god like the imperial creed dictates...He was enhanced but no god...The squats look to their ancestors to watch over them..yes some chose the imperial creed...but the majority would not...went against their heritage....

I didn't say they didn't originally have an STC, I said they almost certainly didn't have any functioning STC libraries following the Age of Isolation. The thing you have to keep in mind here is that the STCs weren't meant to be tinkered with by the colonists themselves; they were horrendously complex devices crafted by the finest artisans and thinkers of the Terran Empire. They especially were not intended to last for tens of thousands of years without maintenance from people that knew what they were doing. Otherwise the millions of worlds that had been populated during the DAoT would still be veritable utopias of technological progress.

The Squats, following the Age of Strife, learned to depend on their own craftsmanship and by the time of the Age of Trade were dependent mostly on their own innovations, not that of the STCs - although they did retain a number of technologies that the Ad Mech had not seen before.

Anyway, you say potato I say potato; it doesn't matter. The BFG reference page you mentioned is http://www.tacticalwargames.net/archive/rules/gothic/gsquat01.html. There aren't any complete conversion rules, but as a general rule 15cm=4VU, multiply armour by 4, d ivide the str of the weapon by the number of batteries the mini uses on a given broadside. Space and cost you need to eyeball.

Sounds like a good plan to use for coming up with the weapons particulars and such...My real deal is gonna be figuring out the space/power costs of some of their components and other such oddities...I do have a general idea in mind however..but i like the method given as far as range armour and such. But one of the cunfusing things is trying to figure out what the damnable battery strength actually IS....from all ive seen the battery strength depends on the **** type of /class of ship its in..which is total BS and throws a serious monkeywrench into the ideas...That and im tryin to figure out how many "slots" to place in a given location on the squat ships as well...IF they had a freakin standardized weapon battery strength i could extrapolate how many slots based on the divisible strength number given..but they dont...so im having issues figuring that one out in particular.

Yes thats one of the exact pages im using and while it is helping me alot for setting these things up..its also driving me nucking futs with reguard to weapons and appropriate slots per location etc at same time.

Any right minded tech prist would see there understanding of tech heresy and have them wipe out and any knowlege of them ever existed wiped from history. Thats my through on it as how closely guard they are with there STC they would of got what they wanted and then done there best to wipe them out. It may have been Nids but i have a feeling the Adeptus Mechanicus had a lot of help in it.

I agreee totally with you Mattman..ive thought the same thing since i read the background storyline for it all..and im willing to bet that the admech are waiting ill the hive fleet leave those planets with known STCs and then they will simply silently go back to them to retrieve them largely intact and do as they wish from there....makes for an excellent plotline as well..since at least some of the surviving squats will know the nids wont care about the STCs and will leave them largely enough alone...so some of the squat survivors might even try to go back and get the STCs ( with all the help they can muster of course..hehe ) Could make for a VERY fun adventure/endeavor as well as a direct DH inquisition crossover since they WILL be involved in something so serious ( the inquisition dislikes the ad mech anyway and will NOT let any techpriest become an inquisitor or even a actual true throne agent due to their divided loyalties...at least the squats accept the emperor and were willing to work with the imperium without issue and even tried to get along with the admech despite their ideological differences...the imperium knows that the squats are actually human/were human..and were willing to assist as needed so..to loose an important ally ( and one that could reduce the imperiums dependency on the admech to boot )...due to admech doubledealing with stacking the deck for xenos terminalis to gain a foothold in imperium territories....i dont see the Inuisition taking that too lightly..however they would not make a move until they could assist the squats in recovering their STCs and then building up sufficient fleet ships and parts etc...to remove the necessity of having the admech meddling in the affairs of regular imperium fleet operations...imagine a navy without need for techpriests....that could repair itself in like half the time and do a better job of it to boot...yeah the Inquisition would go to great lengths to stick it to the admech for that improved fighting ability for the emperor and the imperium...and the admech would go to equal lengths to see it didnt happen as well...

I like that through and it could work well but i would becarful with inquisition as i am sure there would be some that silde with the admechs just like there are once that would use chaos it could be a very interesting ended to a big campain with a number of factions fighting over the STC, the idea of not having tech priest would be very radical and there is no way the Imperial would fuction with out the tech priests as there wouldn't be the numbers of squats to cover all of the Imperial and this is what the admech would use to get what they want.

So i could see a singal Inquisitor helping out the squats the rest of the Imperial would stand with the admech not because they want to but because they have to.

That would only be until such time as the squats could train the rest of the would-be-techs to do the same jobs..thereby increasing the manpower...the benefits would be massive...faster repairs..better working equipment...better equipment period...new gear thats been lost for millenia....all fully open to the Imperium for those who wish to learn and utilize it...the highlords of terra have never been happy with the arrangements with the Ad Mech anyway and it has caused numerous fighting between them ( especially with the adeptus astartes on several occasions resulting in an entire chapter being branded heretical and lost to the Imperium as result )....No one really likes the Ad mech..just toelrating as they have tried to and managed to hold a monopoly on tech for millenia now...and as for those who would preach tech-heresy...easy arguement that cant be refuted...its called STC..hello...lol the designs are in there..just being used as such..and before the admech came along...there were regular techs that handled everything anyway...also on record..so they can try to say crap ..BUUUT...history speaks for itself and cannot be refuted as it is in their own archive data looms as well...The imperium would enjoy being able to build and fix its own ships..instead of having to be beholden to the admech..( would be ALOT more convinient too for needed repairs faster in field )...not to mention would cost ALOT less than having to pay the admech...

As for the Inquisition taking different sides yes..but...thats because of the factionalization of the Inquisition itself...thats normal...it would simply be a case of winner takes all...Just a matter of prudent planning and forethought with a liberal dose of luck thrown in for good measure...afterall..the Blessed Emperor would be watching over his flock and knights ( inquisition ) and would lend aid ( in form of luck/rerolls/random events etc ) to the side that had HIS agenda in mind to accomplish and the betterment of mankind ( afterall the Emperor was tryin to utilize the eldars webway gate tech to circumvent the need for using navigators or the warp in general as a means of FTL transit anyway so the Imperium using xenos tech has a founding with it that cannot be refuted ...) But yes it would make for a very large galaxy spanning adventure

Hehe...talking with you about it got me thinking about it in depth...ive written the first 3 chapters in the campaign for it now..lol should be good enough so far to span potentially 10 gaming sessions or more. Its been written so that it can take place anywhere starting once the PCs ship arrives in system to find a Naval blockade of a planet due to cult/archenemy activity....but thats only the beginning..hehe.

Well I am happy that could of helped you, you must let me know how it goes.

Still think that if the Imperium tryed that the admech would put a stop to it very fast its a bit like taking on microsoft there are far better ways to build an operating system but they will stop you before you can get it off the ground. Yes squats could start to train people how to look after tech but it will be very slow going your looking at 100years before you have the number that will make a impact. I can see what your saying could work but would need a lot of luck on there side to keep it hidden from the Admech because till they have the power to over throw them in one go it will not work and it would be all out war when they did do it.

Oh they will go after it alright..BUT the Admech doesnt have spies everywhere and not all the AdMech would be as annoyed with the idea...take for instance the magos biologis...they prefer bionic style parts and tend to remain largely human LOOKING at least..they see the human body as a bioorganic machine and seek to enhance it while retaining as much normal apperance as possible...they are a good candidate for aquiring the servitors and modified engineers to assist the squats....afteall..the squats have the original tech STCs...and have been using and improving on them for millenia now...and their inventions are in use in the IG and Navy as well as the ad mechs own fleet soo...they actually cant be THAT bad..and besides...the squats think of the Emperor the same as the Adeptus Astartes do...yet another similarity...and the battlefield results of squat tech and methods will always trump equivalent and slightly stronger number of ad mech anyway...so its academic....Examples can be made to make certain members of the more extreme/unusual factions within the Ad Mech see the reason for it all ( especially if they are given access to some of the tech in the process )...only for the biologis side however....and yes it will take some time..but then so does space / warp travel so..lol..this is a decades spanning campaign...It will also fall into line with the setup i have for a particular Rogue Trader dynasty that has direct long standing ties to the Inquisition and provides discreet support in form of ships and teams as needed to that branch of the Inquisition. The Inquisitor, thanks to the RT dynastys luck at finding a archeotech ship on a planet lost in the warp since the Horus heresy reappeared and the dynasty found it and had claimed it and the planet as per their warrant terms in an otherwise unknown system ( intentionally deleted from the official registries by the power of the Inquisitor ) and only the dynasty ships and crews know the locations and take GREAT pains to ensure they are not followed and seeing as how they use the kass Immaterium navigation Cogitator INSTEAD of one of the Navigator houses for directional warp travel...there isnt an easy way to be spied upon since the Inquisition does like it annonymity and secrecy and will kill any who compromise it....Each of the ships has a team of acolytes onboard to ensure loyalty and root out traitors and anything else undesireable...ALL avenues have been checked and failsafes put into place over the last few decades this has been going on...Its taken this long to locate suitable squats to bein the process...The mission start is to get planetside and deal with the large cult that has taken the squat envoy hostage..currently the IG is planetside waging war against the forces of the archememy...only things arent as they seem...the cult isnt a actual cult....its the blood pact soldiers ( a mockery of the IG that serve chaos ) So the IG is chomping at the bit to get at them and tear them apart for the blasphemy ..The team of agents has to get behind enemy lines and locate the hostages ( they are not known to the IG or Navy stationed above ) and extract them safely without being found by the IG or Navy units...Then get the envoy to the ship discreetly....THAT is mission 1...The Inquisitor is pulling rank on the Navy/IG onsite and giving time to his team to rescue the hostages...but it wont last forever and there will be counterattacks often...

Scene 1 opens up at a forward landing zone/base/airfield....within minutes after the team arrives the klaxons begin to wail....incoming archenemy figther/bomber wing on attack vector...ETA 45sec-2min...The team has to get to opposite side of airfield to their waiting ground transport to begin mission...during a air / bomb raid...then as soon as the bombing is done...the ground forces move in for a full frontal 2 pronged attack on the remaining defenders....its fight or die time for the team...but quick thinking and acting can save the day ( and gain them some much needed contacts and peers for later )

So as you see..i do have it action packed from the get-go to keep everyones attention and interest and have incorporated ways for the PCs to gain free contacts and peers as well depending on their actions to further flavor things....and i am NOT making it easy at all...There is plenty of help for them as well since they have a entire platoon of Shock troopers ( under Inqisition authority NOT the IG ) capable of doing ODST operations as needed in 5 man squads for backup/support in addition to the IG artillery that is available to be called in if they happen to find a viable target or just get stuck in heavy fire by armour...same as getting access to an airstrike for same.....afterall..after the airbase assault...both the IG and navy are itching for payback so they will enjoy the chance to get some revenge on the enemy instead of being held back...