I'm thinking it would look something like this. I'll probably be testing this deck later tonight on stream.

How about Ser Preston Greenfield (KotStorm)?

I think he's quite a good alternative to RBD if the Laughing Storm is on the table. Especially if you combine it with things like First Snow of Winter.

Yeah, I could put that in, but I think you start diluting the deck at that point. You are trying to make it do too many things. That idea would probably work best out of a Shadows deck that uses the Shadows Iron Throne.

Staton said:

I like it. It'll be cool to see the painted table in action, and a different set of plots then the ones I run. (And I have the bad habit of running too many attachments.)

Where is your stream Staton?

www.twitch.tv/staton70 I'll bump the livestream thread on here when I'm up and running later tonight.

Professor Nomos said:

+1

Am I the only one who hopes that there's a "House Baratheon Only" Agenda in the next Cycle hidden somewhere? Targaryen, Stark and Lannisters all now have one, I don't think it's out of the question for the fourth "Core" House to finally get one. And then Martell/Greyjoy can follow after.

If there is a time when Baratheon gets one I kind of hope it somehow finds a way to benefit both the Knight and Lord traits with room for some Asshai abuse. How it would work I have no idea but I'm dying here for a House Baratheon Only Agenda right now...

Rogue Cypher said:

I certainly wouldn't say no to more House Only agendas -- as someone without The Winds of Winter, pretty much all my Greyjoy decks are agenda-less, and if I'm not running Knights of the Realm so is Baratheon -- but I think I would rather see agendas that play to Baratheon's strengths without being restricted to them. Knights of the Realm is a good example, it's obviously best-suited to Bara, but people use it in Stark and Lanni, sometimes even Martell and Targ (Greyjoy is left out of the KotR fun with their single in-house knight, The Knight).

Personally, I'd love to see an agenda (or several agendas) that benefit crest-focused decks. The Noble agenda would obviously be of interest to many (most?) Bara decks, but it would benefit the other houses. Bara and Greyjoy would get the most from a Holy agenda, while Stark and Targ (and maybe Greyjoy) would most like something for War characters. (Though Stark decks with lots of War crests are probably already well-served by Siege).

I'm not sure if we should expect any straight agendas in the Essos cycle. Obviously we'll all be getting our charagendas, and let's all hope against hope that Bara doesn't get the short end of the stick like it did every time this cycle every house got comparable cards and mechanics. Can't remember if the cycle announcement indicated that conventional agendas would also be included.

alpha5099 said:

I just feel like if you're going to have 3 "House X Only" Agendas, you might as well just make the fourth one for the other "Core Set" House. And if you have it so it benefits all of Baratheon's strengths in it's own ways then you can somewhat start putting Baratheon back on track to being able to compare to the other Houses and their overwhelming tools. Something different too, so that it kind of adds a uniqueness to it. Maybe since we've been getting a few "trait" centric cards why not something like "Choose one of the following three traits before set-up: Knight, Asshai or Lord. Characters you control with that trait gain X". Not sure what X would be, but it could help ALL of Baratheon's themes get a little boost in strength while not being too ridiculous. Or hell, it could be for Noble Crest Characters instead of a trait. And even if it's +1 STR, it's something at least. I'm still relatively new to this whole "trying to balance Houses" thing so my idea might be over or underpowered. But I just want a "House Baratheon Only" Agenda so bad. Haha, I'll take anything at this point.

Rogue Cypher said:

Brothers at War

This would be a game changer. Not sure if it would be fair or work, but I want it.
Imagine, all your high cost cards in one pile, all your low in another. Or all you locations events and attachments in one, and characters in the other.
I would want to tweak it, but even as is I would make some decks with it. If I were to change it I'd want to be able to run dupes and neutrals.

Rogue Cypher said:

Maybe the Bara charagenda in the new cycle will help some...

For the record I am not a troll. I state what I think. Everyone here should be grown up enough to deal with an honest expression of opinion. Are there any posters here who are 13 or under? If so I'll treat them with kid gloves. Otherwise I speak my mind, and expect you to do the same. That statement by Staton was emotion based not fact based. It deserved the response it got, an honest appraisal that it was the least well-thought out statement I've read on these boards in a good 5 years.

Challenge denial is tough. Burning on the Sands is a beast. You play rush you have to accept that it is a fragile build. All it takes is the right card at the right time from your opponent (in any House) to ruin your day. Welcome to the world of the glass cannon. If you want rush that can barrel through any form of control then you are asking for the game to devalue control, and then we can hear them make the same complaints while others start wondering about hypocrisy.

If you want rush that with the right cards could possibly push through someones early control, but it is not guaranteed... well you already have it. The painted Table does a decent job of forcing your opponent to have to effects he can trigger to get through his challenge denial. You have Brienne of Tarth who prevents any triggered effects from your opponent from affecting challenges she is in. Then of course you have the event cancels. It becomes a race, do you get your protections in hand before they get the controllers in hand? Which is precisely the way rush in a balanced game should be, IMO.

With a few wise plot choices you can greatly reduce their ability to choose plots that will stop your rush (three turns where there is no valar to knock of your nobles, or a first turn valar and two turns of 2 gold and zero claim are pretty nice).

But my statement wasn't about if rush is currently viable (though obviously I think it is), it was about the characterization of choices that Nate and Damon have made in regards to the game. First, trying to characterize what and why they have done what they have done with minimal information (almost entirely relegated to what you see in the card pool and the FAQ's) should be held as suspect and anyone attempting to do so have the flaws of such means of forming an opinion pointed out. Second, the entire tone was accusatory and entitled. If the statement had been, "I understand they want to explore the other themes Baratheon has but I'd really like rush to be given more focus." No one would have said word one. But hyperbole and emotionally charged statements are so much more fun! Staton, you say you can be a troll, I thought that statement of yours was. I was just calling it out.

Listen, there was exactly one statement that I made that I feel was incorrect, and a bit over the top. That was "Until we see some cards rotated out I doubt Baratheon will ever be a competitive house." That was just me bitching. However, I think the design intent in pretty clear, and supports my assessments, when you look at the cards Baratheon has been getting lately. I think you can draw similar conclusions when you look at the restriction of Heir to the Iron Throne to House Targ Only (the designers even said as much in the FAQ statement that was released. They felt that allowing Baratheon to have this card created too much of an imbalance since cards like Fear of Winter, etc were just restricted). Again, they have eratta'd No Shadows Robert (I am completely fine with this btw) because he created a situation where control decks couldn't handle the combo fast enough. The design intent continues to support both Aggro and Control, however I think we can all agree that it supports control MORE than aggro because of a conscious choice by the design team at FFG.

Also, my biggest complaint is that you were still being a ****. There is a difference between saying "You know, I think you are reaching pretty far here with these statements." and "This is the dumbest thing I've read on the boards since someone demanding that Dothraki Sea get banned." That difference is you being a ****.

Actually being a **** would have been you were the dumbest person I've seen posting on these boards.

That would have a been a clear personal attack, but I admit that it was not necessary to post what I did the way I did, regardless of my belief in it. It was every bit as emotional a response as your post was.

My post was not really that emotional. Only one part of it was, where I said that Baratheon wasn't going to be competitive. That was emotional, and I admit that. Everything else was conclusions that I drew based (correctly or incorrectly) on the design of the cards and/or rulings/FAQ changes.

Archrono said:

I think the only problem with this idea would be what happens if you run into a Greyjoy mill deck? It would take less than 4 turns to probably mill through one of those two decks, half of each if you split the millings.

I would much rather see something that supports the Baratheons traits or something to the effect of giving them all another underused trait while simultaneously giving you a bonus for using those other underused cards such as Bannermen, Reinforcements, Bastards, etc. Or Hell, even if you had something like "At the beginning of each Plot phase choose the Military, Intrigue or Power icon. All Unique Baratheon characters with X trait gain that icon." It's not really all that different from the Martell Sandsnakes getting all 3 Icons and 3 Keywords to use, this time you're only getting an icon, let alone just for Uniques.

True King of Westeros.

House Baratheon Only.

Characters you control do not kneel to attack or defend during power challenges.

If you lose a power challenge the winning opponent may have you fulfill the claim effects as if you lost a military or intrigue challenge using a claim of 1.

I think that might be a little too powerful. If it was "do not kneel to attack", then it might be suitable because it gives others a chance to kneel you out and win to get rid of your power rushers while simultaneously meaning if you win initiative you're guaranteed a ton of power.

I like this idea. It gives Greyjoy another theme it can fend off well with "Ahead Of The Tide" so it again isn't too powerful all 'round.

Wow, Staton, you are a crazy one.

Sorry for small off-topic but I modified my treaty with the north deck to abuse latest faq

House (1)

House Baratheon (Core) x1

Agenda (1)
Treaty with the North (LoW) x1

Character (40)
Melisandre (RotO) x2
Robert Baratheon (TTotH) x2
Stannis Baratheon (Core) x2
Eddard Stark (TTotH) x2
Robb Stark (LoW) x2
Knight of Flowers (SaS) x2
The Laughing Storm (GotC) x3
Renly Baratheon (TRS) x2
Brienne of Tarth (PotS) x1
Catelyn Stark (Core) x1
Arrogant Contender (LotR) x2
Val (RotO) x3
Sansa Stark (TftRK) x1
Marya Seaworth (KotStorm) x1
Ser Jorah Mormont (PotS) x1
Hodor (Core) x1
Jeyne Westerling (ASoS) x1
Bolton Refugee (RoW) x3
Highgarden Refugee (RoW) x2
Loyal Guard (WotN) x3
Royal Entourage (TTotH) x3

Location (15)
King Robert's Chambers (Core) x1
Lord Eddard's Chambers (Core) x1
Narrow Sea (KotStorm) x3
Ocean Road (WLL) x1
River Row (QoD) x1
Seat of Power (WotN) x3
Street of Sisters (Core) x1
Street of Steel (Core) x1
Widow's Watch (GotC) x3

Event (3)
Distinct Mastery (Core) x3

Attachment (3)
Bodyguard (Core) x3

Plot (7)
Retaliation! (ASoSilence) x1
Search and Detain (HtS) x1
The King's Law (KotStorm) x1
The Power of Blood (Core) x2
Threat from the East (QoD) x1
Valar Morghulis (Core) x1

I must say that not being forced to use Pyro caches and replacing Alliance plot with Search and Detain really helps

Rogue Cypher said:

Yeah, you're probably right there. Alright, fair enough. It'd still be pretty freakin' great! Man, I've been really having some good design thoughts lately. Hmmmm....Maybe its time to start my own game......

I feel like, if you were going to split "does not kneel to attack or defend" into just one, "does not kneel to defend" might work a bit better thematically. Just from a Nedly perspective, something that reflects Baratheon's claim to the throne, making it harder for others to try and challenge them.

I'd also like to see something that played off having Renly, Robert, or Stannis in play. It's not like many decks are going around without at least one of those, but if Baratheon did get an exclusive agenda it would be nice if it supported your characters rallying around a king. Plus, maybe we could get a new Renly or new Stannis out of the deal. We're probably fine on Roberts, the LCG already has five of them, and really what could FFG come up with that could compete with either Fat Bob or Shadows Bob?

Penfold said:

Hehe, yeah Brienne of Tarth and the Painted Table (which just came out) are pretty great cards, and I'm only now starting to appreciate them. I wouldn't classify Baratheon as a "Glass Cannon" house, but I can see why it might look that way. A lot to most Baratheon deck builds require certain combos and synergistic effects to be set up. (Parmen with Lords and some influence, Renown guys with some smugglers coves and Massey's hook.) But I always though a "Glass Cannon" build was very difficult to set up, and once it is you pretty much win the game.

I don't think Baratheon is quite like that. There are powerful characters you want, but you can still win without them. You don't "need" Fat bob/shadows bob or the knight of flowers (shadows) to win. They are large investments, and should be protected, but the game isn't over if they are killed or locked down.

Like Staton said earlier, there is always some aspect of power grab "rush" in a baratheon deck where you'll get 7-10 power in a turn, but this is still an LCG. You can build it with many different slants and variations.

I would 100% be interested in exploring non "rush" themes in Baratheon, but right now I still don't see a lot of tools out there for them yet.

I get people wanting the leanest deck possible that just pulls exactly what you want and runs its one or two themes and mechanics well, but I like things a little more flexible and complex.
Since Baratheon has "surplus" power (but not really cause that's how you win.) I think more stuff that lets you use it or invest it in some way might be interesting.

The whole reason for this thread is because I saw a lack of interest in Baratheon in the circles I run and on the forums. It always about Martel or Lannister right now, and all I play and invested in is Baratheon. Some say they aren't competitive, and I respect that maybe right now they aren't in joust.
But I still like them better then the other houses, and I think with a creative and balance approach to deck building, any house can be interesting, and maybe even competitive.

Do I want tools to just negate all the amazing and interesting abilities the other houses have? No. I don't mind losing to an amazing play in an intense game, and a big part of why I play is all the cool stuff people come up with.
I'm just seeing what people who enjoy Baratheon have to say, to improve my understanding of the house and make me a better player.

alpha5099 said:

I figured the "does not kneel to attack" fit thematically too since they all seem so aggressive (Robert, Renly, Stannis). But I see your point too. Not kneeling to defend could justify Baratheon Kingsguard as a bigger theme.

Also, going along with the "King" rallying what if it were something like:

"If you control the only King character in play your characters do not kneel to defend and gain 'immune to opponent's events'.

If you do not control the only King character in play you cannot initiate Power challenges."

The benefit is very high while the downside is potentially devastating. It would mean a lot more strategical thinking of keeping your King alive (just like most characters would do in the books bar a handful) so you can benefit from them.