Might be an odd question, but I'm new to the RPG but familliar with the background, and I always thought the Death Watch were the elites of the elites. The very best of the Space Marines.

My question is simple. If I want to have non-DW marines in a game, should I make the marines less powerful in some way and if so how? This might be a simpler question than it appears because I'm only planning to use them as NPCs in a DH game, Don't worry - they're not going to be GM PCs who will take the spotlight away from the players. The players are actually probably going to hate the marines given the adventure set-up and that's how I want it to be. They'll mainly be in the background but I'm the sort of GM who likes to have everything statted up otherwise the world doesn't quite feel real to me.

So back to the question - they're just going to be regular marines, not Death Watch. Should I reduce their effectiveness somehow and if so how?

Thanks!

K.

I don't think so. DW are just specialists. I don't recall than they're supposed to be mechanically "better" than non-DW "I play with only my chapter" space marines. They just have enhanced training fighting xenos, more access to Inquisitorial gear, and more experience working in small, diverse combat formations.

Kshatriya said:

I see. Cannon shifts around. I remember Space Hulk which is where (I think) the Death Watch first appeared and I remember them being the best of the Space Marines at the time. And the whole thing about it being made up of veterans from other Space Marine chapters led me to think that a regular marine should be mechanically lesser than the ones in the DW book.

I'll keep them as is. As NPCs, vastly more powerful than the Dark Heresy PCs, it probably wont make any difference. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the players decide they have to try and kill one...

I think you're thinking of the Death wing , which is a Dark Angel formation. They're the ones that showed up when Space Hulk came out.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

You have no idea how many things have suddenly started to make sense. I thank you.

K.

Space Marines are statted as NPCs in Black Crusade, if you have access to the book. Basically 40s across the board.

IMO, the Deathwatch is a organisation within the Inquisition that exists and is dedicated to fighting Xenos and Xenos threats. Regular Space Marines are 'seconded' to the DW as per of ancient agreements made by the Chapters to send their battle brothers on 'vigils' or a tour of duty.

They are not elitist in any sort of way, except they are trained and focused at killing aliens and have more experience in combat with aliens species than regular battle brothers. Therefore they are somewhat specialists in their field but they are no different from regular marines in terms of stats.

You do not have to change the stats of a marine to reflect that he is just another battle brother from a chapter. You may wanna keep the stats and traits but change the skillsets. Hope this helps.

Bear in mind that fate points alone make a huge difference to a character's potential. Besides rerolls and healing, several talents require them to be used at all. So even if an individual space marine has a higher stat than a Deathwatch PC, the PC still has an advantage. I think that, the already decent stat-line and the anti-xenos training cover the elite part pretty handily.

It is true that DW SM are veteran and by the way more experienced than newly promoted SM.

Chapters send for honour and glory battle brothers with high effective field experience, but not all of them.

SM from regular chapter are quite the same without special xenos killing talent, young SM are maybe the same less ten to fifteen characteristic points.

Weapons are more or less the same, as is armor and vehicules.

Standard Space Marines start out in the 10th (Scout) Company and get promoted up from there. So, how powerful they are relative to their Deathwatch counterparts depends at least in part on which Company they are from. 8th-9th Company SMs will almost certainly have less experience that DW, while 1st-2nd Companies will likely have more experience (possibly including previous tours with the DW themselves).

I am currently running a game set in the Badad War and the PC’s are Novamarines. I just had them make characters as ultramarines and told them they don’t have access to the DW advances. That’s all I did and they are loving it.

I've always thought of the rank structure (and starting at rank 1 in particular) in deathwatch is more about the space marines learning to fit in with their fellow battle-brothers from other chapters. Probably a little distrusting at first, some apprehension about sharing secrets and battle formations. Then growing in confidence as they share in glorious battle. Becoming more willing to use some of their better training techniques they've already knew but was uncomfortable using in the kill-team as well as simply learning new abilities.

As the brothers become closer their potential increases as they learn to fight together. How each of them compliments the other, etc.

Starting at rank 1 for normal marines makes sense too, as they actually must learn all their abilities from scratch.