Hi.

I'm putting together my first DH adventure. I'm pretty familiar with the setting and am having no problem with the plots and characters. I'd even like to write it up as an adventure once I've run it.

But I'm struggling getting my head around the rules. I've got the hang of the general principles, but I just go Information Blind when it comes to all the different traits, talents and special abilities. I find it really hard to take two characters and see how similarly or different they'll play. For example, I created an Adepta Soritas character as an NPC. I couldn't see an existing set of stats for them, so I made one with the same rules as PCs and the career path in IH. I brought her up to Level 5 (Militant) because I figured that they'd been underpowered for the sake of balanced PCs and that Militant could represent a standard, battle-ready Sister. And I stuck her in Power Armour, naturally. Then I created a PC guardsman as one of the pre-gen characters. I honestly couldn't see much difference between them. Is the level 5 character supposed to be significantly better than a level 1 character? Because the guardsman seemed to be able to have a fair chance at beating the Adepta in unarmed hand-to-hand combat (something that is likely to happen in the first session, for plot reasons). I expected at least the Power Armour strength bonus to make a big difference, but they both seemed to fatigue around the same time. And looking through the stats at the back of the book and at the NPCs I have been coming up with, it seems like there's not a lot to distinguish one character from another. The range of WS/BS 30 to WS/BS 50 that nearly all characters seem to fall into, seems a very narrow range with little to distinguish characters in play.

Similarly I find it hard to distinguish between Guardsmen, Arbiters and Asssassins much. They all seem to be quite similar to each other.

Have I just not got a feel for how significant a +5 to WS or Toughness is, or am I missing a lot more detail in the traits than I have realized? Are there killer skills / talents that I maybe havne't realized how significant they are? Right now, I see a statblock with Nerves of Steel and Rapid Reaction, and my eyes just glaze over.

Don't get me wrong - I'm really looking forward to running this. And I love the background. I'm just not very detail orientated and I can't work out relative toughnesses, etc. At the moment, everyone seems to be roughly about the same level of power whether that's my 5th level Adepta Soritas or the Arbitrator in the back of the book. Am I missing something?

knasser said:

Le what?

Average Toughness Bonus: 3

Sororitas Power Armour: 7 (8 if Best Quality)

Now, since Power Armour is non-Primitive Armour and unharmed attacks are Primitive, the Armour becomes 14 (16 if Best Quality)

14 + 3 = 17

How the hell a Guardsman hopes to score at least 18 damage points with his bare hands (to cause the Battle Sister at least 1 point of damage) save a very lucky Righteous Fury?

PS: the Battle Sister Career (and other Sororitas Careers) was remade in Blood of Martyrs and the rules there work a lot better than the ones in the Inquisitor's Handbook.

Le what?

Average Toughness Bonus: 3

Sororitas Power Armour: 7 (8 if Best Quality)

Now, since Power Armour is non-Primitive Armour and unharmed attacks are Primitive, the Armour becomes 14 (16 if Best Quality)

14 + 3 = 17

How the hell a Guardsman hopes to score at least 18 damage points with his bare hands (to cause the Battle Sister at least 1 point of damage) save a very lucky Righteous Fury?

Ah now that's the sort of thing I'm just missing! I had missed the part about doubling armours effectiveness against primitive attacks. Though actually, I think that just makes it more even between the two combatants. Formerly, the guard had almost no chance of inflicting wounds on the Sister in her Power Armour, but she had a small chance of inflicting wounds on him in his Guard Flak Armour. But now that his armour is doubled against her punches, neither of them have much hope of actually damaging the other and it all comes down to fatigue. So they're evenly matched once more.dr

PS: the Battle Sister Career (and other Sororitas Careers) was remade in Blood of Martyrs and the rules there work a lot better than the ones in the Inquisitor's Handbook.

Now I'm really confused. So there are two versions of the career path for the Adepta Soritas, in the same game line, in the same edition? : / Are they significantly different? I don't have Blood of Martyrs. I could buy it if it's really worth it... I'd be a bit miffed as the Adepta Soritas rules were one of the reasons I bought IH...

Primitive attacks VS non-Primitive Armour is a really cool rule and you should try to remember it, since many times your whole group survival will depend on it (specially while investigatin Feral Worlds, savage mutants or poorly equiped cultists).

I can't tell you to buy or not Blood of Martyrs, since that depends a lot at what youre games focuses on. If the Ecclesiarchy (and by extention the Sororitas) is important in your game, then it's definitely a must buy.

For me (because I really like all the Ecclesiarchy/Sororitas stuff) it's the best supplement in all four Warhammer 40k RPG lines. But again, is a matter of what do you like about the setting and want to focus your game on.

For the Sororitas, the rules a COMPLETELY new and Blood of Martyrs suggest that if you have both rules, use the ones on BoM since they reflect better the Sororitas (which, as a matter of fact, they do).

So, what's the difference between both Sororita Careers?

First of all, Militant and Non-Militant Adepta Sororitas orders aren't all pur togheter in the same Career as in IM (because it doesn't have sense).

The book has the whole Battle Sister Career in a very linear and straight forward way from Rank 1 to 8, altough you have a couple of Alternative Ranks to choose when your character gets to Rank 5.

You also get Rank 1 advances for Sister Famolous, Sister Hospitalers and Sisters Dialogus, which now are independent Careers. After Rank 1, these carrers advance like Adept/Cleric, depending on which one is it.

You also have the Alternative Rank for Sister Repentias, in case your sororitas character gains too much Corruption and you want to still be able to play it until the end.

[EDIT]

Oh, and the book also has Fate Powers into it (not only for Sororitas, but for all ecclesiarchical characters), which are really good and awesome. These powers can really change the tide of a battle if used wisely.

I find it hard to see how they can be evenly matched since i have no numbers to look at. Have you upgrades Str and Toughness stats on the sister because this would make a difference. Maybe they have different talents, if the guardsman have unarmed fighting or street fighting he would have advantages in a brawl.

If the Sister is rank 5 and the guard is rank 1 she would have an advantage in the xp difference, but even so alot depends on how you use the xp.

I feel your pain. There are a LOT of Talents and little rules that come into play in certain situations.

My advice to you as GM would be to forget about most of these. Let the players worry about their own stats and talents, and fudge your own
You'll come to learn the effects of the important Talents as you game, so don't worry too much about it.

As for stats, a difference in WS/BS of 20 is quite a lot. It means that one more attack will hit out of every 5. Even so, this game becomes about managing modifiers. While a Standard Attack is rolled at your WS, a Full Auto Burst at Close Range will be at +30, which is a BIG difference. Going unarmed against an armed opponent will inflict a penalty. And so forth.

They're wearing armor designed to protect from military-grade firearms. That they're not going to damage each other by beating on each other with their fists is a given.

bogi_khaosa said:

Ghaundan said:

Flak armour does. Flak armour blunts Hormagaunts and Ork choppas. In any case, of course a guardsman isn't going to be able to wail on someone in power armour with the manly art of fisticuffs. Well, he can in the sense in which you can wail on a brick wall, but that's about it.

knasser said:

You're missing a lot more details in the traits. The stat differences don't make too much of a difference, though a combat character will quickly get +10 or +15 in numerous combat attributes over and adept, which can quickly add up.

But skills and talents are where the main differences lie. Skills lead to obvious differences, especially out of combat. A Guardsman can't get +10 to dodge until Veteran (3000xp), an Assassin can get it at Nighthawk (1000xp). And talents make huge a huge difference - Assassins can get Lightning Attack (3 attacks in melee) at 3000xp, Guardsmen don't get it until 6000. And it'll only cost the Assassin 200xp, it costs the Guardsman 300.

And that's just one skill and one talent. Add in the others and you have a huge variance - and certainly a massive power difference between a Rank 1 and Rank 5 combat character. Don't forget that equipment is important too. By having the SoB and the Guardsman fight in unarmed combat you're taking away one of the Sister's advantages - she should know how to use better weapons that the Guard.

The Sister of Battle in Blood of Martyrs really undersells Sisters of Battle (in my opinion). Rank 1 characters are... well dreadful. They really are bad at doing even what they are meant to do. The older Sisters advance scheme (in the Inquisitor's Handbook) got round this by starting you off as a lowly initiate. A full Sister of Battle would be rank 4 or 5 (as you have decided with your character). It also meant (as the early ranks were identical regardless of what branch of the Sisterhood you were in) that Sisters could be broader characters (the book actually says it is only suitable for more experienced roleplayers as it is essentially unbalanced, being too good).

However, FFG decided that players should be able to play as full Sisters of Battle from rank 1(as there had been complaints this hadn't been possible). Now, this was not going to be at all sensibly balanced, as they gave a Rank 1 character Power Armour (stuff you Scum and your quilted vest!). In order to try and balance this the Sister of Battle 1) has no helmet... which is not really balancing as it is the 2nd least likely place to get hit (after one of the legs... can't remember if left or right), and at low levels called shots are faily unlikely. Also, aside from the Guardsman no one actually starts with a helmet and 2) making the sister really narrow. Want to blow up heretics? Yup, they will do that. Anything else... well, you have a very expensive doorwoman. Also, as they have rank 1 stats and talents, they are also useless at next to anything... which really undersells Sisters of Battle, who are well trained, if slightly psychotic, soldiers.

However, I will admit I am not keen on Blood Of Martyrs as a book in its entirety...

Darth Smeg said:

I most wholeheartedly agree!

Coming from a predominantly D&D background, where you could see in a glance what kind of pc or npc you had before you, I still find it hard, for example when a Dark Heresy pc is branching on his Career Rank Path, wich branch is meaning what.

Things to look out for are Unnatural Toughness and Strength (in NPCs) cause you will immediately realize how they will plough through your characters or soak the damage done.