I have a player in my group who knows a fair amount about the 40K universe , and has told me that he would like to make an Alpha Legioannare as a black shield. His back story is that prior to the landing site massacre at Iistvan he was laid low and was in his sus-an induced sleep. The rest of my kill team has just completed a home written story and I planned on having the Omega Vault open to contain an extremely rare FULL suit of Mark 8 power armour but I was introduced to this new roleplayers and he collects Alpha Legion in the TT so I thought, why not bring him in using the Omega Vault?

Basically, after hypno-therapy and being outfitted with Mark 7/8 armour (after being declared free of any warp taint of course) he is assigned to th squad who's mission it was that released him from the Omega Vault. The characters have been notified of the discovery of a Legionnare in the Vault but he has yet to be created or introduced. Another reason I would like to include this unusual character in the game is because I believe it would lead to some interesting plot hooks. The Alpha Legion discover the existance of one of thier brethren from before the heresy as would like him back, or maybe some rogue Inquisition assets desire him for expermentation?

The question I really want to know is how would you stat a character like that? And would you impose any restrictions or limitations on the character? I think insanity points are a given, but how many would you reckomend?

I'd probably not allow the Alpha Legionnaire to be from the Horus Heresy as that would mean he's in the possession of a shitload of info that could break alot of mystery of the greater setting. I would probably make him very old but not ancient. But I would think that some odd and special talents and probably alot of Forbidden Lore could be very fitting for a character like this, and maybe even some unusual technological devices.

And I would think that perhaps this character has fragments of memories that can lead the Imperium onto the trail of the secrets that can lead to its final victory in the Jericho Reach. Say that perhaps when he is sleeping he has a memory of a woman dressed in red atop a spiraling stair. And then the characters draws what clues they can from this, and it might lead them to some pre-Imperial human ruins, where they might perhaps discover the start of a bio-toxin with properties that would render it both impossible for Tyranids to assimilate.

Just some random idea thrown out.

One of my characters has this same kind of idea, however he's not an original Legionnaire as such, but a successor, one of the few that didn't fall to Horus' schemes and eventually made it back to Terra. Many of these Marines were Death Guard, as per Flight of the Eisenstein, however it's not unimaginable that a number of the other Legions made it back in some way or another. Eventually I'd imagine these Astartes were seconded to the other chapters after their deaths, their Gene-Seeds being preserved as a loyalists' one would, although kept under observation by either a Master of Sanctity, the Apothecarium, or the Librarium. Sometimes a mixture of all three.

My theory is that any Marine that learns of their past undertakes the Black Shield oath in front of a number of their peers, the Master of Sanctity, head Apothecary or Librarian, and then is sent to the nearest Watch Fortress.

As for rules for these Marines, look at the Chapter's traits, and see what fits them most. The White Scars or Raven Guard Attack and/or Defense modes might work well for an Alpha Legion, whereas I would highly recommend stats like Fellowship, Intelligence, Perception and Willpower for attributes. I suggest Willpower because any Marine whose chapter, or hell, in this case Legion, would have a pretty high Willpower in their dedications to the Emperor's Service.

Sounds interesting, I've thought about doing something similar with a Night Lord that left the fragments of his legion and rejoined the Imperium.

My real question is this. Why would a full suit of ordinary power armor be something significant enough to be in the Omega Vault? It's just armor. Even then, it isn't as rare as you make it out to be.

Your wording is confusing too. Is the PC Marine the one in the Vault? Or is it some other Alpha Legionnaire?

10,000-year-old Alpha Legion Black Shield with the latest Mark of armour?

Your player is really going for the special snowflake niche.

Omfg, "Legion" really f...ed the 40k-universe!!!

I’d like to offer a different view to Ghurkal’s idea. I think a legionnaire who lived during the Great Crusade would be a wonderful role-playing opportunity. Yes, he would have knowledge now lost to mankind. On the other hand, he has returned to an Imperium very different to what he knew.

This is a man (or superman if you will) who abandoned his battle brothers and gave up his allegiance to his Primarch for a greater love to the Emperor and mankind. Only to find out that the Emperor is a living corpse, the empire has fallen in the hands of petty bureaucrats and religious zealots and the dream of the Emperor has turned to ashes. And his former battle brothers haven’t just turned evil and betrayed all they stood for, some of his friends and brothers are actually still alive.

If he even survives the psychological blow, I’d expect him to turn very reticent and remain very uncommunicative about the ‘glorious’ past which has turned very bitter for him.

The main issue with such a choice would be to make it suitably epic. Such a returned/reanimated Space Marine shouldn’t be just another member of a kill-team with an unusual background story. He should be the central theme of an epic adventure. He should have knowledge that could make a vital difference. Something like the personal flaw of a former battle brother which could be used to kill an otherwise unkillable ascended Chaos Space Marine turned Deamon Prince.

Or perhaps he is the only person who can talk a vital Chaos Space Marine in repenting his deeds and showing the Imperium how to traverse the Hadex Anomaly to the Stigmartus recruiting worlds. Many of the future CSM’s had no idea what they were getting into during the heresy and just followed orders (e.g. flight of the Eisenstein). Perhaps some just need to be shown a way out by someone they trust. Who better than a former squad mate to tell them about black shields?

Obviously, the central theme around the reawakened SM shouldn’t overshadow the other players. Perhaps they must show this returned SM that the Imperium is worth fighting for. And help him get to the place he has to be to make the vital difference….

As to the Mk VIII armour, that doesn’t fit the returned SM theme at all. This guy should be wearing 10,000 year old Crusade armour….and be damned proud of it.

ranoncles said:

That's the problem.

And a Black Shield with Mk 2 armor...yeah, sorry, I'm going to stick with "snowflake."

to answer yer question (instead of sniping at yer premise): I'd stat him exactly the same as everyone else - he's a loyalist, and presumably experienced enough to be a veteran (as all deathwatch marines are), so i see him having the same stats as the rest. Sure, say d10 +5 insanity points for the time-travel-to-horrific-distopic-future, and whatever chapter-specific enhancements you decide to give your Alpha marines (might even let him keep his heresy armour? to compensate for the insanity?)

Yeah, everyone wants to be a 'special snowflake'...that's not a problem....it's human nature, and, technically, the game supports such thinking...just make sure everybody's a special snowflake, if ya know what i mean...

Zappiel said:

I sort of agree with your second premise. My concern in such a game would be the character successfully derailing any plot to make it about his history. When everyone else is from the "present" and one guy knows things as fact that are myth even to the High Lords of Terra, that can cause some issues. Someone with that kind of background might very well make the other players feel cheated or "less than" because they're not 10,000-year-old Great Crusade veterans. At the same time, you're right, being so old means you don't know about the newer things that have occurred, like how far the Imperium has fallen, the rise of the Tyranids and Tau, the existence of the Inquisition, etc.

I don't think Mk 2 armor need be compensation for, say, 15 Insanity Points. Not like Insanity really affects SM THAT badly,, even with the Primarch's Curse. And I'd think the Deathwatch is more likely to hold onto the ancient armor and put him in newer stuff, that would arouse a lot less suspicion than armor that once marched alongside the Emperor.

yes, i agree, a definite problem...i'm assuming the gm in question is duly 'special snowflaking' (?!) his other players as well...and, you have a good point re the old guy's lack of current knowledge, a fine flaw which can be roleplayed quite nicely (sure, he has forbidden lore - legends at 100%, but he don't know what a tyranid is??? Get to the back of the bus....)

Vendettar said:

What? Why?

Alot of great posts, here is something from the other point of view, what if he is a current Alpha Legionairre tasked with infiltrating the Death Watch. He creates the identity of a Loyalist Marine with current marks of Armor. The rest of the party doesn't need to know and its up to this player not to blow his cover. He would need to find a way of completing his undercover mission while at the same time completing all the DeathWatch missions you can come up with.

I think the entire point of the black shield advance is being overlooked…. its about ROLEPLAY opportunity, not mechanical differences to be unique and awesome. Just roll up a generic marine (ultramarine is good for this) and then black shield the character, and write some background fluff to explain why aren't a normal, loyalist marine. I think Alpha Legionnaires (even pre-heresy loyalist ones) still cleave to information warfare and deceit, so there's no need for the character to be obvious about his origins. Drop hints, make it obvious he's ancient and generally build up the mystique and glory of the character as viewed by the rest of the kill-team. Then at some climactic point during the campaign, have his true origin revealed and see how much it shakes the bedrock of the other marines beliefs. Enjoy the ensuing infighting

ranoncles said:

Published on - 14:19:00

I’d like to offer a different view to Ghurkal’s idea. I think a legionnaire who lived during the Great Crusade would be a wonderful role-playing opportunity. Yes, he would have knowledge now lost to mankind. On the other hand, he has returned to an Imperium very different to what he knew.

This is a man (or superman if you will) who abandoned his battle brothers and gave up his allegiance to his Primarch for a greater love to the Emperor and mankind. Only to find out that the Emperor is a living corpse, the empire has fallen in the hands of petty bureaucrats and religious zealots and the dream of the Emperor has turned to ashes. And his former battle brothers haven’t just turned evil and betrayed all they stood for, some of his friends and brothers are actually still alive.

If he even survives the psychological blow, I’d expect him to turn very reticent and remain very uncommunicative about the ‘glorious’ past which has turned very bitter for him.

The main issue with such a choice would be to make it suitably epic. Such a returned/reanimated Space Marine shouldn’t be just another member of a kill-team with an unusual background story. He should be the central theme of an epic adventure. He should have knowledge that could make a vital difference. Something like the personal flaw of a former battle brother which could be used to kill an otherwise unkillable ascended Chaos Space Marine turned Deamon Prince.

Or perhaps he is the only person who can talk a vital Chaos Space Marine in repenting his deeds and showing the Imperium how to traverse the Hadex Anomaly to the Stigmartus recruiting worlds. Many of the future CSM’s had no idea what they were getting into during the heresy and just followed orders (e.g. flight of the Eisenstein). Perhaps some just need to be shown a way out by someone they trust. Who better than a former squad mate to tell them about black shields?

Obviously, the central theme around the reawakened SM shouldn’t overshadow the other players. Perhaps they must show this returned SM that the Imperium is worth fighting for. And help him get to the place he has to be to make the vital difference….

As to the Mk VIII armour, that doesn’t fit the returned SM theme at all. This guy should be wearing 10,000 year old Crusade armour….and be damned proud of it.

So what? Mark V/Mark VI or older?

igotsmeakabob!! said:

Because we found out the reason why the Alpha legion fought with horus in the first place and still use the battlecry 'For the emporer' along with the instance of meetining Alpha Legion in the emporer protects on samesh saying 'Swear as we have, Swear to the emperor.' Another unnusual thing is that most of the Pre-heresy Alpha legionares looked very much the same to there primarch…who is actually 2 of them as twins!?? The name, Alpharius Omegon is the combined names of the 2 twin primarchs….and this secret is not even told to the other people of the imperium at large.

The reason that they worked with horus is 'SPOILERS' that they found a vision from a group called the 'cabal' who are a multitude of races (mostly eldar) who told them 2 versions of the future, One was how the 40K universe is now EXCEPT that the Alpha legion still worked with the forces of the imperium…who then are told of the result of this as Chaos just returning at its full power as the heresy.

The second vision is a doozy for most people, If the Alpha legion helped Horus to win the battle against the Imperium. After Horus manages to kill the EMPEROR OF MAN he snaps out of his insanity/mind control and looks at everything he has done in horror and basically has his forces kill every single human being and destroys chaos for good!

So in the belief that the Emperor of Mankind would do anything to completly destroy chaos, The Alpha Legion decided to work with horus….albeit its still a mystery how they couldn't have won even with there intelligence network? The Alpha legion's goal is now to unhook the Emperor of Mankind's life-support from the Golden throne and cause the destruction of chaos….

I feel sorry for them as a result of this, They will litterally make themselves as demons to save the universe…they got some very good resolve so I would definitly put some points into Willpower as this would break a normal marine.

In short: Alpha Legionnaires are closet loyalists who play the LONG game about as well as the Thousand Sons.

Gaire said:

Pretty much pal?

Lysander1stComp said:

Done this. Guy's being super-duper sneaky, secretly learning Demolitions skill. Why? No-one knows…save me.

Gurkhal said:

I don't really get this - perhaps it's because I'm not a fan of settings where players are expected to pretend they don't know half the basic background, but I've always assumed that (particularly within the Deathwatch) people more or less knew the facts of the Horus Heresy - albeit with a chapter-heavy slant.

What mysteries do you think they could break?

Chastity said:

Generally in the 40k universe while SMs know more than most, they are almost as pig-ignorant of the truth as the rest of the populace. I have difficulty with this too, and try not to draw attention to it. Instead I highlight the fact that they know more than the idiots below them. As to the mysteries, well…that Horus was an ok guy before the corruption of Chaos, the Imperial Rational Truth rather than 'WORSHIP THE GOD-EMPEROR, WORSHIP HIM!'. knowledge of the Primarchs, of lost tech….

Chastity said:

My issue is that with an actual member and participant from the Great Crusade alot of mystery will be dissolved from with a PC who sits on alot of otherwise forbidden or lost knowledge

1. What the Emperor's will really is and that is isn't, including debunking alot of venerable Chapter traditions as not line with Emperor's will

2. The mystery of the Alpha Legion

3. Mystery of the Primarchs

4. Any uncertainty about the Horus Heresy

That's what I can think up in five minutes or so but I don't doubt that there would be even more, specifically if you've got a player that's gonna test the limits

Its not that the Alpha Legionnaire would have knowledge that the player probably has. Its that he would have knowledge that the player probably wouldn't have and detailed knowledge to that which the GM will be more or less forced to codify for the sake of the PC. With an NPC things could still hang in the air but less so with an PC.

Gurkhal said:

I don't see how any of those things are undermined by the character having fought in the Great Crusade though.

1: It's not like the Legion Marines were all hanging out with the Emperor drinking Schapps and shooting pool. The Emperor was an inscrutable bugger even during the Heresy and it isn't remotely clear that the Emperor's Will is now what it was then, or that what it was then was what it seemed to be then, or that what it was then was what the player's character was told that it was then.

2: What mystery of the Alpha Legion? Again, if you're talking about the Dan Abnett's Legion , we-joined-the-heresy-to-destroy-Chaos thing? Surely the only person who would even care is the guy who's interested in playing a member of the Alpha Legion anyway?

3: Again, it's not like in the 31st Millennium everybody was all "yo, Sanguinius, nice wings bra". They won't know where the surviving Primarchs are, or what happened to them when they were taken by Chaos. An Alpha Legionary might know that the Legion had twin Primarchs, but is that really a game-breaker?

4: I suspect that this is a personal thing. The basic details of the Heresy aren't something I'd expect PCs to be ignorant of (if only because it's a powerful myth and most chapters will have preserved the knowledge of their chapter's involvement in it) and the finer details are things I wouldn't expect people who were around at the time to know about *either*.

I think maybe I'm so unbothered by this idea because I've been planning a Black Crusade campaign recently and the *default assumption* is that half the player characters will date back to the Heresy.

The Cabal was all a ploy of Tzeentch to appeal to the pride of the Alpha Legion. Sure, the Cabal thought they were dong the right thing too, but they were already deceived by Tzeentch before they ever got to the Alpha Legion. Tzeentch then used the chumps in the Cabal to turn the Alpha Legion to Chaos by making them think they were being the most loyal of all. The Alpha Legion, for all their claims of being so **** cunning, are just the biggest bunch of patsies in the WH40K universe.

Chastity said:

No, but they were aware of the Imperial Truth and what general policies that the Emperor personally advanced on the conquered worlds. I think for instance that its pretty clear to any Marine from that time that the Imperial Creed is in violation against the Emperor's will. And I would think there are a great many other subjects where the Marine in question would know what the Emperor wanted or at least what he would not want.

Chastity said:

The mystery about them, their motives and organization. The whole thing about the Alpha Legion is that they are supposed, at least to my understanding, to be mysterious but a member like that would have some pretty juicy inside information on the issue. Granted alot would have changed but it would still break a little of the mystery.

And no, I don't particular like the idea of the Alpha Legion as naive dimwits tricked by a bunch of xenos just like that. I like my Alpha Legion to be as devoted to Chaos and the destruction to the Imperium as the Black Legion or Iron Warriors.

Chastity said:

No, it wasn't. But the Primarchs were still around and since the Legions were split up odds are that the Marine would have met people who had spent time or at least seen the Primarchs in real life. Thus reasonably the Marine would have alot more and accurate info about the Primarchs than any present person could ever hope to get hold of.

Chastity said:

I disagree. The basic story and the most important events, like the Istvaan Massacre or the Siege of the Imperial Palace are most likely known. But I'm talking about details beyond that which the Marine is likley to have some knowledge about, same with the Great Crusade. Maybe not all but at least enough to rival the most well informed present individual. The Alpha Legion was after all, as I've understood it, not known for keeping information from their own members.

Chastity said:

That seems like a very reasonable idea why our viewpoints departs. I mostly play Dark Heresy and Deathwatch and thus this stuff is supposed to be mysterious and unknown to almost everyone.