I swear I remember reading something about heroes not getting rewards for killing leaders/Lts with lingering effects. The only related item I'm coming up with is that curse tokens are not gained by killing Master Dark Priests with lingering effects.

A strict reading of the RtL rules states that when a hero "deals a killing blow" to an encounter leader the party is rewarded (pg 14, last sentence). But the Lt is more vague - it merely states "When a hero kills a Lt". I thought there was an official ruling on this, but I'm not coming up with anything.

Do heroes still gain rewards for bleeding/burning/what-have-you a leader or Lt to death? The OL rules are pretty clear cut- "when a hero dies" he gains conquest, but sadly, the hero rules are not...

Here you go. It's in the Descent FAQ:

Q: If a master monster is killed via some indirect means,
such as being knocked back into a pit, a hero’s aura
ability, a lingering effect, or a familiar, who gets the
bounty of coins?
A: No one. A “killing blow” must be the product of an
attack roll.

I think it is almost certain (though not spelled out clearly) that when the leader dies for any reason, the heroes get the reward in RtL. In vanilla Descent, the reward goes to a specific hero. The FAQ entry quoted almost certainly refers to that case. Since gold goes into a communal till, there would not really be a need to make the distinction of who lands the killing blow.

Some relevant test from RtL:

regarding killing a level leader page 17: "the heroes receive 100 coins and 2 conquest tokens for killing the dungeon leader."

regarding killing a dungeon (3rd level) leader page 18: "when the dungeon leader is killed the heroes receive 250 coins and 4 conquest tokens"

regarding Party Victory in an Encounter page 15: "If the heroes kill all of the monsters on the board, they may loot the bodies."

If we were to go with the interpretation that "killing the dungeon leader" and "heroes kill all monsters" means the heroes have to land the killing blow (lingering effects, etc don't count) then the second case listed above presents a contradiction since it does not specify that the heroes need to make the kill. You could also make the argument that if at least one monster in an encounter is killed by a lingering effect, then the heroes do not receive any reward, since they did not kill all of them.

It presents an extra problem with getting the red runekey. Page 17 "upon killing the leader, the heroes immediately receive it [the red runekey]." If we required the heroes to land the killing blow to satisfy "killing the dungeon leader" then if the leader dies by an indirect effect, then the heroes can not go any further.

These cases make me think that the cause of death (hero inflicted or lingering effect) is irrelevant for rewards in RtL.

Right, but specifically, the last sentence on page 14 of RtL uses "killing blow" - " When a hero deals the killing blow to an encounter's leader, the heroes gain..."

My guess is since this was FAQ'd before, it is intentional, but what is weird is that the Lt battle is different, though just as specific using different text. "Sixth, if a hero kills the Lieutenant, the heroes gain..."

Let me just spread the chaos... I'm killing my own lt. with another monster.

pinkymadigan (please read the tone as friendly discussion, not hostile debate ): Yeah, I get that they use a specific phase that has been addressed in the FAQ in a different context. I was trying to demonstrate the inconsistency in wording across several similar situations, which you have already alluded to. WIth RtL it's important to try to look past the wording since there are so many inconsistencies and vagueness in the RtL rules.

Cases like this come down to what you and your group can agree upon. Is it more important to stick closely to the word of the rules? Or is it more important to maintain an overall consistency?

No, I completely get that. But the game is clearly not consistent. If the recent trend of "letter of the law FAQ answers" keeps up, rather than intent, I think we'll see a FAQ answer for this (I realized this is in the list of unanswered questions) where the heroes do not get rewards for effects killing leaders, at the very least. And yes, you could kill a Lt with a monster, but that's a terrible Idea when he can "run" off the board for the same effect + no loss of Lt. But as for the normal encounter leaders, they do not have the option of running (which also results in unwinnable encounters for the OL occasionally, but that's a different story), so killing them would indeed negate a hero reward. It might not be fair at all, but I get the feeling that we'll see the wording upheld (as per the original FAQ where the wording was upheld) and possibly some protection against self-kills on the OL's part (which needs addressed anyway for several quests to work) - which once again results in an inconsistency - but note that the game is definitely NOT the same for heroes as it is for the OL. Inconsistencies abound, many intentionally.

Personally, I feel that because FFG is fighting to not amend rules in play (which spreads confusion) they will uphold the original wording but safeguard self-kills, possibly with the simple solution of "the OL may not target a space containing a named monster with an attack" or something alike (though there are still issues with traps, but whatever).

My point is while they originally went with "intent" they have skewed towards creating less rules post-release in favor of upholding current wording recently.

Not that I'm the type of OL whose going to go around attacking my leaders, just pointing out some trends I've noticed, really.

EDIT: I try not to come off as anything but friendly discussion on forums as well, so if anything reads differently than friendly discussion, my apologies, it was not my intent.

Additionally, as for things like the Rune Key, yes I would always allow the heroes to advance, because despite my feelings that the quest rewards statement will be upheld, it would really be BS to play that kind of stuff on my buddies. I don't spawn blocks on treasure, I don't drop blocks next to certain named invincible monsters, I generally try not to break the game, and expect my heroes not to either, but this is hardly game-breaking, it's just a small injustice to the heroes (and there are plenty both ways, yes?).