How do these rules interact?

Shocking weapons require the target to Test Toughness if they "take a hit" from the weapon, or be stunned. Does "Take a hit" include hits that cause no damage due to Armour and Toughness?

You may attempt a Stun or Takedown with a melee weapon. These actions involve hitting the Target, and may cause stunning on their own. What happens if trying to Stun with a Shocking weapon? Must the Target resist both the Stun from the Shocking weapon and the Stun Action? If they both result in Stuns for 1 round, do these accumulate? Or is it merely the highest result that is applied?

I'd say a hit is any successful attack that is not dodged or parried. So yes, I'd say shocking would apply even if no damage was taken. Don't need to get a bruise to get tasered, after all. Touch is enough.

As for the moves. I'd say it requires two tests, resolved separately, and I'd say they combine, though that's purely off the cuff. If this leads to excessive stunlock in play, consider changing your ruling. Because stunlock is boring.

So, have I got this right?

BruiserBob the "Enforcer" has Takedown, Strength 35, WS of 40 and a Shock Maul. He wants to take NoGood Ronny alive. He decides to Charge, for a +20 Bonus to his Stun attempt.

He rolls a WS test vs a target of 60. (WS 40 +20 from Charge. He Does not get the additional +10 he would for a "regular" charge with a Standard Attack.) Having Takedown he ignores the -20 penalty to WS that Stun usually infers.

He rolls a 43, for a solid Hit with 2 Degrees of Success. At this point Ronny may attempt an Evasion. If he succeeds, that effectively ends Bobs turn. Let's have him fail his Dodge.

Bob now rolls a d10 (4), and adds his SB of 3 for a total of 7. Ronny isn't wearing a hat, so he subtracts his TB only (3), reducing the result to 4. Ronny is stunned for 4 rounds, and takes 1 level of Fatigue.

He was also hit with a Shocking weapon, so even had Bob failed his Stun attempt, Ronny would still have to take a challenging Toughness test to avoid stunning. Now being Fatigued (or does that not affect this roll, seeing as how it happened simultaneously as the Stun?) it becomes a Difficult Toughness test.

Ronny fails with 3 Degrees, and is stunned for 3 round. He was already stunned for 4 rounds, so this has no effect. Or is he now stunned for 7?

Alternatively, Bob can go for a Takedown as per the Talent description (not using the Stun Action). He can still use the Charge action, but here I have a question: P132 says: "He then roll to hit (using his Weapon Skill) as normal". So can he decide to use Charge with All Out Attack, for example?

If so, he may now roll his attack vs a target of 90 (WS40 +20 from Charge +30 from All Out. No -20 from Stun Action, as it is not utilized).

He hits the right arm, Ronny fails his Dodge.

Bob rolls damage as normal dealing 1d10+SB damage, for a total of 7. Ronny is wearing a flak vest so he now subtracts 3AP+3TB from the attack, but still takes 1 point of damage. This is enough, and any surplus damage would be ignored anyway.

Ronny must now take a Challenging Toughness test or be stunned for 1 Round and knocked Prone.

In addition, he must test Toughness for being hit with a Shocking weapon, as per the other example.

Missed something?

Followup question:

The Shocking weapon quality says "A target that takes a hit from a Shocking weapon must make a Challenging (+0) Toughness Test."

What if he takes several hits at once, ie from a Swift Attack? Must he test Toughness for each hit? Or just once for the whole attack as long as at least one hit got through?

Ronny fails with 3 Degrees, and is stunned for 3 round. He was already stunned for 4 rounds, so this has no effect. Or is he now stunned for 7?

I'd reason 7, saying they stack, but that's honestly preference. If this creates too much "stunlock" or gets abused for that purpose, I would consider changing it into "highest only". Basically, playtest to figure out what works best. So far, stun has not played a big part in my game, so I can't really say how it plays.

Alternatively, Bob can go for a Takedown as per the Talent description (not using the Stun Action). He can still use the Charge action, but here I have a question: P132 says: "He then roll to hit (using his Weapon Skill) as normal". So can he decide to use Charge with All Out Attack, for example?

" As a Half Action or when making a Charge Attack the character may declare that he is attempting a takedown against an opponent in melee combat. He then roll to hit (using his Weapon Skill) as normal; using any modifiers for weapons and talents (or the +20 bonus from Charging)."

The first part seems to indicate that a Takedown is it's own standalone action. The second part exempts All Out Attack, because it's neither a weapon, a talent or the bonus from charge. So no, I'd say you can't add the bonus from All Out Attack, nor the bonus from the Standard Attack or any such things. It's a straight up WS roll, modified only by talents and equipment that give blanket bonuses or alterations to such, such as Best Quality weapons. However, since it seemingly has no subtype, you could technically attack, then takedown. Or vice versa!

Ronny must now take a Challenging Toughness test or be stunned for 1 Round and knocked Prone.

In addition, he must test Toughness for being hit with a Shocking weapon, as per the other example.

Missed something?

The fact that shocking goes on a hit. Takedown never states explicitly if it counts as an attack, and thus a hit WITH THE WEAPON. The fact that it applies weapon bonuses is a point in favor of shocking applying, but it's seeming lack of the Attack subtype makes it more questionable. So really can't make a clear "rules say this" ruling here, sorry. Personally, I'd say no. Because, as mentioned, you could technically takedown and then attack most of the time, so shocking would get to be applied later in those cases.

What if he takes several hits at once, ie from a Swift Attack? Must he test Toughness for each hit? Or just once for the whole attack as long as at least one hit got through?

By a strict reading of the rules, it's once per hit. He's taken multiple hits, he tests multiple times. As for how this works out in terms of balance, I dunno. Like I said, I've not seen Shock weapons in use enough to judge the devastation they bring. But personally, I'm all for a weapon type beyond power and chain (and Force, for some) seeing some use and getting some player love.

I pretty much agree with what mort say, but the test for Shocking shouldn't be done while Fatigued (they happen at the same time, it's happenstance that he should be fatigued before or after the roll...) and would rule it to be the maximum of the two, to avoid stunlocking, as he says.

I'd agree with K0balt - Stun should overlap instead of stacking.

Reverend mort said:

Ah, but if you read the description of the Charge Action, it specifies that you move a distance determined by your AB, then make an attack that is either a Standard, Swift or All Out Attack. So a normal Charge CAN be an All Out, with a total of +50 to your attack

Darth Smeg said:

Hell, if you wanna say that the bonus from all out attack counts as the bonus from charge, sure, let's do that. You now get no bonus from charge, since it's not the "+20 bonus from charging". It's the +50 bonus from charging, which is not a weapon, talent or the +20 bonus from charging.

I suppose this is getting slightly off topic, as it is more about the Charge action. But the Charge action is a full action, leaving no room to make a separate All Out Attack Action. So any bonuses that is added to the attack roll is indeed from the Charge Action. And the Takedown Talent says you may use Takedown as a part of a Charge Action, which again specifies you may make Standard, Swift or All Out Attacks.

My confusion stems from the words in the Takedown description where it says you roll to Attack as Normal, but then moves on to give examples (and limitations?) of where the bonuses might come from.

I have a slight suspicion that the Charge Action originally just allowed the "normal" Standard Attack, and that the +20 Bonus includes the +10 from Standatrd Attack. Then it was changed to include Swift and All Out, but the wording about the bonus was forgotten. This is just a hunch, mind you, but I've seen other threads on this forum about the Charge Bonuses.