During our campaign we have started pondering an issue that mostly recieves little attention if any: gay relationships in the Imperium.

Now before continuing, let me first state that I myself have no problems with gay relationships in real life. As a Dutchman, we (well, almost all of us, there still are some sad exceptions) have accepted the fact that sexual predilictions might differ as a fact of life and are about as open minded as you can be on this world. What is to be discussed is not, in any way, the acceptability of gay relationships in the real world or our vision of them, but how the Imperium of Man considers these.

This problem is exacerbated by the fact that we mostly skip around sexual questions along the RP-table. This is quite logical, and most often a question of good taste. It is perfectly fine to play out a romance or attempt at seduction during play. But the level of detail we then give the resulting activities is almost always covered by a fade out and a note that there 'was much rejoicing'. Contrary to violence, of course. Nothing harmful could come from describing that in its most horrifying detail, now could it! Add to that that RP (and Warhammer miniatures games as well) are amongst others very much aimed at adolescents, who are still discovering all the joys and perils of sexuality and the fact that any company wisely and understandably tries to prevent touching issues that might cost it lots of money. Combine all of the above, and we get a real life issue that gets next to no attention in the esthablisment of the general background of the game.

So, back to the question: How does the Imperium of Man look at gay relationships. If any real world comparisons might be taken, the odds are bleak. A militaristic totalitarian state ruled in conjunction with an everpresent dark shadow of the catholic church in its worst incarnation does not seem the place where free thinking is allowed to flourish. Sexual differences might quickly be named sexual deviations. A strict attitude would even be reinforced by the fact that sexual liberties do in fact cause real and terrible problems in WH40k, as one of the great Chaos Gods, the dread Slaanesh itself, feeds directly on the carnal passions of man (and Eldar, obviously). Contrary to the real world, in WH40k you could make a reasonable case against an open minded view of sexuality.

In short, if I make up the case an understanding or accepting view of gay relationships in the Imperium of Man seems unlikely. Now you can ask yourself how important this is. Everybody is obviously free to include or exclude sexuality from RP situations, but in my opinion excluding it would leave out one of humanities strongest urges and desires. In civilised mature RP this is an issue that can be handled and only enriches a campaign (and with tasteful fade outs still leaves the game less confrontational then one click on the internet). But what is the wider view on this prickly question?

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void

P.S. To give an example of how I include the sexual activities, Friedrich has the companionship of 4 selected concubines, to whom he limits his amorous pursuits, which he still enthusiastically embraces now he still is free from dire mutations. But they are far more then just gamers dreams, all having their personalities, gifts and quirks, aiding him in making his star charts, managing his social affairs, etc, etc. I find that including them has really deepened his personality and character. I could have easily have left all of this out of his story, but I am thoroughly convinced it only has gotten the better because of it. Not doing so would be like playing a chem gelded character without taking into serious consideration the effects of this trait, reducing it to a mere tool for powergamers.

Dangerous topic, this. Funny thing is that my group discussed this very question just yesterday. Our conclusion was more or less that we wouldn't really touch the subject in our games, but if we did, it would probably not be seen as particularly unusual. However, homosexual relations might lead someone into becoming more vulnerable to Slaanesh, seeing as they are indulging in sex for pleasure/recreation and never for reproduction. Someone being actively persecuted for being homosexual would probably become much more susceptible to Slaanesh influence though.

I can already see how my answer to this question can be seen as problematic by other roleplayers, which is why I'm not going to bring this topic up in any of my games. WH40k just doesn't seem like the right kind of setting for it, since everything seems to be very black and white in it.

from france

no gay relationship don't make them more sucptible to slaneesh like hetero they can have sexual intercourse for pleasure but also for love.

and the imperium as a whole doesn't care. there can be discirmination on local scale but not for the imperium.

there is another topics in the right game dark heresy.

Yeah, as Spider says, we talked about this on the DH forum, here.

And I agree with Spider: I think the Slaanesh/Homosexuality link has unfortunate connotations, and should be avoided. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think being gay makes one any more vulnerable to Slaanesh than anyone else. Slaanesh isn't about sexual orientation; he/she's about excess , a trait not necessarily linked to one's sexuality.

My humble opinion:

1) Does been gay make you more vulnerable to Slaanesh?

Nop. I think that Slaanesh's corruption is a little more complex than getting laid:

"Slaanesh is the Chaos God of lust, greed, excess, pain, pleasure, perfection and hedonism" (Lexicanum)

So:

All gays **** for lust? No (or better said: don't we heteresexuals also **** for lust? I know iI do =P)

All gays are greedy? No.

All gays like excess? No

All gays like pain? No.

All gays like pleasure? This one is tricky, but not because of gay peple but because who doesn't like pleasure, heteresexual or gay alike?

All gays are hedonist? No

I don't see anything here that marks gay people as more vulnerable to Slaanesh than heterosexual people. Slaanesh's corruption is not about with who you do it but why and how.

2) Does the Imperium make a big deal about been gay?

Yes and no.

No, becuase the Imperium doesn't really give a **** about what you do on your free time (mostly because you don't have free time =P), they have more important bussiness at hand (like not been eaten by Tyranids).

Yes, because they need more manpower. The Imperium is a huge machine (ask the Mechanicus if you don't believe me =P) who is always hungry for more and more manpower, it's the key to human survival. Since gay people in a forman and stable relationship don't have kids, that's the only reason I see why the Imperium would care. But, if you marry (or at least get laid) with a woman/man and have kids, the Imperium probably couldn't care less if you have an homesexual afair.

I think this is supported by the fact that generally (except on some planets) men and women have the same rights. The Imperium see humanity as a whole, not as individuals, so they don't really give a **** about what individuals do or puts any prejudice into them (as long as you are not a freaking mutant =P).

My two cents, I hope it helps.

from france

no not even the argument of manpower is good again on the locale level. why? because some world are overcrowded and it may be considered a form of birth control. you can also have a world with a society conception like one of ancient athenes.

for world who need a lot manpower and especially if they have good mechanicum back up " In vitro fertilisation " is the solution.

again i think that is the question is "in the imperium" it should be in DH and not RT if the question is outside the imperium like the koronuse expanse it should be "outside the imperium" and it is in the rt section

but Maese Mateo has some good point. il will just had one point get rid of the cliché "slaneesh equal sexual pleasure" it s much more complexe than this.

Interestingly, the fluff has provided us with a number of homosexual relationships, viewed in precisely the same light (and with the same acceptance) as heterosexual relationships: there was a Navigator and an astropath in the latter part of the Inquisition War trilogy, and the Ciaphas Cain novels include Sergeant Grifen and Corporal Magot as a lesbian couple (IIRC, the greatest amount of disapproval shown about that is a brief note that their relationship is arguably against regulations, thanks to them being in the same chain of command, and then nothing being done about it).

I believe there are also a few hints in the Necromunda novels, but I don't recall any overt mention of homosexuality in them- possibly in Fleshworks , but a) my memory may be wrong and b) if it was there it was most likely treated in the same fashion as in Ravenor.

Seeing as how folks have covered this very well already I don't have much to add. Except that the contrast between fade to black on anything sexual vs graphic detail for violence bit.

This has led me to the conclusion that we need critical hit charts for Seduction rolls.

Sorry, my mind goes weird places sometimes.

CaptainStabby said:

The Codex Astartes supports this action

It's come up in my groups as well (a common topic!) and my answer has always been "On some worlds of the Imperium, it'll get you shot - on others the opposite is true".

There are a billion worlds of the Imperium. Why not a hive world where homosexuality is law, artificial insemination is the only legal form of reproduction in order to keep the population under control. Or a sparta style world where you have a woman to make children but a man for pleasure. Void station of the Amazons who prey on men who dock for resupplies but otherwise entertain themselves? So many options (My RT claims to be heterosexual but keeps a Harem filled with men - his first born child is his heir and he doesn't dare risk impregnating someone of lower breeding, for example)

I guess with the bevy of ptions open to you, it's a question of how comfortable your group is with it and go with that

professor_kylan said:

I have to agree, but wish to add that everything in the imperium is subject to local variations in mores. There are going to be worlds where some practices are mandatory and others where the same practice is a capital offence. Heck, there are probably some planets where a practice is both...

Further to the local variation theme is the social class theme. What might be horribly illegal on the world of Nogay for the peasantry might be ignored or even the norm amongst the nobility. Or vice versa.

40K has, by means of its huge variation the ability to have nearly any kind of human society one could imagine.

You can look further into polyamorous societies, men with many wives, women with many husbands, webs of men and women all in committed relationship bonds with multiple partners in the same web. Varying degrees of marriage from sex bonds all the way to absolute monogamy. Really you can come up with some really interesting societal situations.

Watch Caprica (the TV series) and look at Sister Clarice's family for an example of a well written polygamous family of multiple men and women.

Also, without being anvilicious, don't be afraid to go there. Obviously work with what your group is capable of handling, but don't be afraid of throwing in the planet of the polyamorous gay people who only reproduce via cloning.

RP is fun and is a game but it doesn't mean it can't be used as a means of thought experiement.