Several alternative career ranks from Hostile Acquisitions seems to imply they can be taken by xenos characters, which doesn't make sense to me (an ork Sesessionist? a kroot cold trader? an ork swashbuckler?... Doesn't sound solid, setting-wise).

I think that is just a difference between two writers, one that took into consideration xenos and other who just tough it was a human-only book.

What do you think?

I think you're probably right for most of of the weird combos and you'd just have to let common sense be your guide, but for a few of them the Xenos class works fine.

Kroot Coldtrader? Someone has to be on the other side selling stuff to the humans that take the Peer:Xenos route right? Also not only would I allow an Ork Swashbuckler in my game I think I might make it a requirement.

Ork Swashbuckler is totally canon - just look at all the old Freeboota Kaptin stuff in 40K

I suspect it was just the bit of "we don't want to reference a bunch of stuff that isn't in this book, and leave people confused", and so they didn't mention Ork or Kroot PC options in HA, since the races weren't present to reference. RP books of many systems I have played are notorious for treating each book they make as if it was written to be the only book, along with the core one, that they intend you to use at once, since they don't know how much money you are intending to pour into their product, which is especially annoying when you get one that gives characters stats, and then a later book comes out with something that screams "Such'n'Such used me!!!", but they don't have it, because they were introduced in an earlier printing, and no one wants three separate, mostly identical reprints of Such'n'Such. I'd argue that most AC paths, unless they specifically say they DO allow xenos races, or have the race's name in the title, are restricted from any xenos character, unless it is so unspecific a package that ANYTHING could pick it up, in which case it usually doesn't warrant a path write-up. One benefit of being Human, even in a game where almost everyone is Human, is our supreme versatility; we can do a little of anything, while other races focus heavily on one thing to excess, such as Eldar specialized warrior cults, Ork numbers and resilience, or Tau ranged combat supremacy. Each might be better at it than us, but we can try some of each, while they can't. Of course, the best option is to just plan ahead a little, and ask your GM ahead of time, would they have a problem with this, so that you don't try to build toward it, for nothing. If your GM likes an Ork Flight Marshal, or a Kroot Manhunter, check ahead of time, and then make a run at it. You'll never know unless you ask.

[RANT]
My little gripe is still that they limited the xenos options to two, the Orks and the Kroot. While I suppose I can't make a list of ten Xenos options I would like, I personally HATE the Orks, in every way, and would look forward to getting to fight them, in game, just for the excuse to cull their numbers, and would hate playing a game with an Ork PC, especially one being well-played, because I would want to kill them, and would have to know better than to. It's a small bit where I'd have difficulty playing my character, rather than myself as my character. Any character I would make would just have to have an irrational hatred of Orks, because I do. As for Kroot, they never really interested me, and I always viewed them as a bit more under the Tau's thumb, making it difficult to imagine seeing too many Kroot PCs, or even roving bands of mercs. I've never seen much for their own ships, and so don't know how so many groups move about so much, without the Tau ferrying them from place to place, meaning the Tau were there, too. If I were playing, and there was one in the group, I'd be much more likely to accept that than a Greenskin, but still. Yet somehow, they passed up the opportunity to let me play an Eldar (yep, you knew my whine was leading up to this, and here it is). A covert Eldar could much more easily hide themselves among Humans than Hulk, or a weird bird-alien. Oh well, maybe the future will give me Eldar PCs, as they start to realize they need help, or they will all die (and the plan of winning through their combined deaths is silly, since they are still all dead). Since the Tau are so often portrayed as the most accepting, and benevolent race, I also might have appreciated a bit of them there, since a Rogue Trader could easily ally with them, and get access to their cool stuff, or fake it. They could deceive either side (the Imperium or the Tau) with a minimum of fuss, and keep running as a Rogue Trader, with Tau-ship stuff, regardless of who their true loyalty belongs to. Having Tau on a ship is almost as believable as Kroot, and certainly more than an Ork (to me).
[/RANT]

venkelos said:

Double post removed.

venkelos said:

venkelos said:

venkelos said:

See, to me Kroot and Orks make more sense than an Eldar on a RT ship.

Everyone seems to think they are going to get Aspect Warriors or Farseers as part of the crew... uh... no.

Maybe at best you might see a Pathfinder, Corsair or maaaaaaybe part of a Harlequin troupe, MAYBE. The rest of the Eldar have very very defined positions in their society, they aren't gona run around Indiana Jones-ing it with humans, it's just not going to happen. Sure you could let a player mary sue it up with their one unique special non evil Dark Eldar Incubi with his two scimitars and his cyber panther and... oh wait, nevermind, no don't do that.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, but it would take a lot for a player to convince me to play an Eldar even if official rules ever came out for them.

Ale Golem said:

No, I saw the Kroot Warsphere, but it's a battleship, so I like to imagine them as a bit rare, and then it's Kroot booking passage on other's ships. I don't find that so strange, when even important Humans, such as Inquisitors and their Throne Agents, usually have to book passage, rather than having their own ships. It's just that I don't see Kroot having Spheres without the Tau making them, and not having a lot. Where they do go, the Tau know, and I often imagine most of the Kroot mercs being more "and the Tau don't know what we are doing..." I could easily be wrong, but it's always more what it seemed to me.

Kroot cloaking is cool, certainly, but I meant more an Eldar could, conceivably, put on a baggy cloak, and pull up a hood, and have a bit more ease blending in than a giant, green beast with sharp bitz, who realy wouldn't seem to want to hide, or a Kroot, for similar reasons.

Having mercenaries on board is normal, certainly. Having an Ork, one of the most hated, universally reviled, iconic xenos in the galaxy on board is NOT. I can't imagine you could take him anywhere where people know what an Ork is and have happy responses. Give it a generation, and his spores will plunge them into Ork Wars. Many people will simply shout "Xenos", and demand blood, especially loyal Imperial citizens, raised to revile the Alien. Not to say Eldar are loved and appreciated, by comparison, but as said, they might have an easier time blending in with Humans. They are sometimes also viewed as a more covert threat; the times Eldar screw you, they either have their own ship, or they do it by proxy, from a safe distance. If he's there, with the Humans, nothing too bad is likely to happen, so his safety can be guaranteed.

CaptainStabby said:

I definitely wouldn't expect a Farseer or an Aspect Warrior to be my Eldar character: I'd love it, but that level of cheese invites even worse cheese from the NPC's, which I wouldn't need. Just your "average" Eldar, a Ranger/Pathfinder, or even a Guardian, someone who could otherwise be on a Corsair vessel would be great. Exodite Eldar are a bit nicer, and less bound by the Paths of the Eldar, so they might be from such a world. The one I proposed for critique here, named Kaevas, is a history/xenohistory expert ruins explorer, looking for Eldar stuff, to keep it with his people, and make other stuff money, as Eldar can use resources, too. He's no psyker, nor an Aspect Warrior; mostly an Eldar Seneschal/loot tracker. Mostly, it's that I like Eldar, and they are accomplished spacefarers, while Orks aren't, and neither are Kroot, IMO.

I dont completely disagree with you about Orks, but Kroot are awesome because they get Mimic @ Rank2.

Noticing that put them in perspective. I get them in the scope of RT now. They are giant space parrots. Every Captain worth his salt needs a parrot!!!

venkelos said:

I remember reading in a white dwarf not long after the original release of the tau that the technology used by the kroot was actually developed by them a couple of generations after they defeated an ork invasion of their home world.

Jup. They had their own pocket space empire long before even knowing what a Tau is.

and in the end we have a dark eldar class about to be released...to be honest i was thinking of taking the stats and removing the more"evil" parts and calling him a corser or ranger to be honest.

This thread has given me an awesome idea for a Grot Freebooter/Cold Trader NPC.

CaptainStabby said:

Kroots being Space Parrots is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Well done.

Layton Draxby said:

No, the Ork Flight Marshal or Swashbuckler the funniest to me. Not that I blame you and your Space Parrots thing, but I've seen it enough in games that I am personally not interested in hearing that joke again at the table.

@Venkelos

I can sympathize with your feeling on Orkz and Eldar, at least to a degree, but Freebooters are similar to a tumbleweed in that they go where the Teef are like the wind. And Eldar as far as I know are too mysterious to expand on them too much (that'd take away from their allure and intrigue, wouldn't it?).

The Kroot are expanded on in the setting fluff book I think, explaining that they came to the Koronus without explanation, rumored Warsphere sightings, and bodyguards or bounty hunters being seen within even the more civilized areas of the Expanse. And I think some others hinted that Kroots weren't always with the Tau, a more recent development, but I swear I recall reading that the Kroot used to be more technologically advanced in their own right but forsake technological development in favor of their older ways. Not that they let go of everything, they still love shooting and feel the need to strengthen their people by feeding on strong races and creatures on other places, so ships were still needed, but if they ever had cars/planes/tanks etc, I haven't seen any in a long time. And thinking about it, the Kroot came to the Expanse for some reason, it is believed, but no one knows why. Maybe they came from the Expanse? The Rak'ghol being the evolutionary dead end of Yu'vath followers who turned on their former masters and ate them all up? Oh, hell yeah, I'm going to use that some day.

Fair enough, as I said, for me I didn't care for them, mostly cause I've always thought the entire anime Tau army was dumb from the get go in the tabletop...

We currently have an Ork Bosun on our crew which is tons of fun and I desperately want to make an Ogryn Voidmaster who specializes in shipboard munitions. Essentially, he's the fastest macro-cannon reloader this side of the expanse and takes great pride in it.

As mentioned earlier an Ork Swashbuckler is pretty much what a Freeboota is anyhow and the thought of an Ork Flight Marshall terrifies me haha.

While I do have some reservations, I think Dark Eldar could fit in among a Rogue Trader's crew without too much difficulty.

Their natural inclination towards violence makes them great for fighting and keeping discipline among the crew (a steady stream of miscreants to torture should satisfy the Dark Eldar's other needs as well). And their generally mercenary attitude keeps them loyal to a degree, as well as access to the.. exotic markets of Commorragh.

Blood Pact said:

At first, I was going to protest, primarily based on the reactions of the crew - but truth be told, I honestly think that most servants on the ship would have trouble knowing the difference between an Ork and an Eldar; The difference between two kinds of Eldar is just.. too small to notice, even with the spikes.

CaptainStabby said:

If that's the case then I take it you've never heard of Deff Skwadron before?

http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Deff%20Skwadron/warhammer_40k_deff_skwadron_gn_(wapazoid_dcp)_37.jpg

CaptainStabby said:

Excellent points about the types of classes that might see use, but I get the feeling that pathfinders and corsairs would suffice for most players. Still, depending on the campaign and the context, other types of Eldar could see use as player characters, at least on a temporary basis. The interests of the Rogue Trader and his crew (profit!) and the Eldar of Kaelor could very well align, and the Eldar do sometimes (barely) swallow their pride and work with the Mon-Keigh, when killing them before they stick their fingers into the electric socket of the universe* or manipulating them to do the Eldar's bidding won't work. An alliance could involve an exchange of personnel, both as help and as hostages. After all, hostages were used throughout history to support peace treaties and alliances for a reason.

*Again.

However, given their delightfully mercenary attitude, the Dark Eldar would seem to be much more likely to end up serving on a Rogue Trader vessel. If memory serves, 40k fluff mentions that, while their opportunism makes hiring Dark Eldar risky allies, the confident, desperate, and the insane do hire them from time to time. And ensuring said Dark Eldar profits more from sticking with the Rogue Trader group than by selling them out could lead to some interesting roleplaying. There are innumerable variations of the mercenary theme that could work: A straight-up hiring, or perhaps taking aboard a desperate Dark Eldar who cannot return to Commorragh because influential people want him dead (perhaps he botched a slave raid...?), and so on.

In game terms, though, I do wonder how FFG will resolve the problem of the Thirst. Since he or she needs to devour souls on a more or less regular basis in order to survive, a DE crewmember would need a steady stream of victims. When the RT vessel has prisoners aboard, that can be ignored, but what happens when they run out? If I were to GM a group including a Dark Eldar, I would rule that his or her presence permanently lowers morale unless the vessel has enough prisoners aboard so the DE character doesn't have to resort to finding 'volunteers' amongst the crew (after all, no matter how large a ship, rumours would just fly around).

CaptainStabby said:

My Dark Eldar rules kind of necessitate being a bit of a **** to NPCs, and sometimes to the PCs depending on the situation. Apparently the Soul Reaver splat book will have some rules for playing a Kabalite. It vaguely makes sense in the same way Kroot does. Them and Dark Eldar are mercenary races.

EDIT: On "The Thirst", characters tend to plonk down webway portals on planets so they can have a steady stream of Imperial Citizens tortured or sold off. The aspect is explored in my rules, but I didn't want the gameplay to get too bogged down by that (especially given how much we get bogged down when encounter an Imperial planet). Really though, The Thirst comes in to play when Dark Eldar are outside of the webway for long periods of time.

EDIT2: In the campaign that we're currently running, a Haemonculus down on her luck abuses a xenophillic Rogue Trader emotionally to get a steady stream of slaves. The Rogue Trader gets a few goodies out of it, as well as a very esoteric trade partner. Mutually beneficial? Yes. Lopsided relationship? Also yes. In character and working relatively well.