Thanks for the input!

Glad to see someone else had the same idea I did.

Rolling stats together makes sense. the way you did it. And I may decide to drop the stats down into 4 myself. For the moment I am going to test the 6 though. 6 works in other systems pretty well and while less can be more I am not sure how comfortable I am with 4 stats covering everything. It seems like a lot would get dumped on your mental stat (spells, searching, many "profession" skills, etc etc...).

My plan for difficulty was going to be 3 part.

1) If the task itself was hard because of the position the player was in then he would get penalties to his rolls. Never anything more then a -3 or 4. (Each die would be whatever you rolled -1,2,3,4 depending on how hard it was).

If the task itself was hard because the the TASK was difficult it would require more successes. But success would be cumulative and they would just have to spend another action each round working on it until it was completed. Picking locks could be this way. So could breaking down a door. A crappy hollow wood door could be kicked down with a might test with 1 success. Knocking down a steel door would require more success and the player might be hitting it over and over again trying to break it down.

Finally, I thought some situations might have dice penalties based on circumstances. Like the steel door. Maybe it's not so much that you need more successes but that because it is steel your might matters a little less and the dice pool is reduced.

I think those are bad examples... but I am tired at the moment. But those are my 3 options for making a roll more difficult and I was intending on clearly defining why each type of penalty would be used. Which also means when those things are in your favor you might gain bonuses.

My experience with command point style systems has been that they speed up combat. Allowing players to make heroic strikes and such just adds a level of cinema to the fights which I think the feel of the setting benefits from.

Lance845 said:

"Current trouble area: Magic. I have some hitches I can see coming from magic in the game. Things like the 7th plague need to be possible in Tannhauser but it needs to be difficult."

I assume that you are referring to the Ninth Plague of Egypt mentioned in the text for Hermann von Heizinger. Magic like this is really a question of scale. In the context of the background material, the plague of darkness was pivital in winning a battle against 11 regiments of amphibious battleships, and lasting just under 48 hours. By contrast, the Tanhauser boardgame usually involves opposing teams of 5 individuals and a span of time that would probably represent less than 60 minutes. For the scale of the board game, if Herman were to quickly summon the magics of the Ninth Plague, the effects would only extend to a single path. Anything greater than that would be a special condition of the scenario, not an in game use of a token.

As most roleplaying games also focus on the individual characters over the larger organizations that they may be a part of, I would suggest limiting the focus of the magics to the personal scale, and leaving the grander effects for plot devices. If the scenario calls for the players to stop Hermann and his plague of darkness, they will either be racing to do so before the ritual is complete, or trying to get close enough to disrupt it after it is already complete. Either way, determining the actual mechanics of what Hermann has to do to perform this magic on a larger scale is unnecessary since its success or failure is going to be determined by the player's actions, not Hermann's.

That should help minimize the amount of work that you need to put into the magic system.

And for those kinds of situations you are correct. But one of the big things in these kinds of games is the player wanting to do that and freedom of the player to do that. The players don't have to be union. What if the game in question is the players being Reich? What if they got access to a spell of similar destructive proportions? The mission then would be performing the needed steps and buying time for it to be completed.

This can be acomplished with a character or group of characters doing an extended roll gathering the needed successes over time while the other players fight to defend them. Or maybe the ritual casters have several tasks to complete. Either way. Codifying personal scale magic and ritual scale magic is a quick way to do that. Defining what is needed for ritual that makes it so **** hard and general more trouble then it is worth is also good. If you need a place of power to cast it from then you cannot just go running around dropping plagues on everyone willy nilly.

Again, I would say that what you are describing there is a structure for a scenario, not a magic ritual. If the players can aquire components A, B, and C, and hold of the enemy for # rounds then the described effect will occur. Components A, B, and C could just as easily be mechanical, and the # rounds could be the time required to assemble them. Or, components A, B, and C could be captured documents, and the # rounds the time required to decipher them. The formula could have any number of permutations, but the end results are essentially the same. Unless you really want your players to begin EVERY mission by blanketing the area in darkness, components A, B, and C are going to be rare and collecting each component should be a scenario unto itself. This gives the players a sense of the magnitude of what they are undertaking. Successfully accomplishing a task that they have to invest several game sessions into is going to be a much more rewarding experience than telling them to make a difficult roll on the ritual casting skill (or equivalent).

I think we are saying the same things back and forth to each other. I agree. Basically ritual magic should be like a scenario. But it can be expanded into weaker rituals as well. Consider 3rd edition dnd paladins. Detect evil. Holy crap did it make the game lame to have every potential betrayer, every spy, every anything that could be more then a thug thrown at the party to fight outed by the paladin sitting in the same room as him. Does that mean detect evil had to go? No. I mean detect evil had to be made into something that took time and effort to use so that it was not practical to use it on a constant basis.

That kinds of abilities can fall under the same rules as ritual magic. Putting those rules down allows for big rituals to act as the center point for a scenario or to give the players an interesting tool they can put effort into making effective at the right moments. It's a tool in their hands to make a choice to use instead of something the DM throws at them and tells them to complete.

I will have a fairly big update by the end of the weekend. Just got busy with work and such. But at least the majority of character creation should be good to go when I update.

Character creation part 1: Attributes.

There are 6 attributes as defined below.

Might: A measure of the characters physical strength and prowess. It helps in melee combat (armed and unarmed) is a requirement to use some heavy equipment and determines how much a character can carry before becoming encumbered.

Agility: A measure of a characters dexterity and precision. This helps a character aim ranged weapons, perform acrobatic feats, move faster, and perform many skills that require precision or manual dexterity.

Toughness: A measure of a characters ability to withstand pain and injury. It is used for shock rolls to shrug of damage and determine wounds, withstand the effects of poison and disease, and to persevere through harsh and tiring conditions.

Intellect: A measure of a characters logical mental prowess. Intellect is used to academic skills, to perform diagnosis on many technical problems, to research, study, or investigate various circumstances, and for casting spells through the use of occult incantations.

Willpower: A measure of a characters mental fortitude. It is used to resist mental influences of any nature including seduction, torture, and magical or super natural effects. It is also used to activate powers granted by super natural influences or nature.

Perception: A measure of a character awareness of their surroundings. It is used to notice things in a room, to search a room, to hear or spot people sneaking up on you, and to help aim carefully made shots with ranged weapons or powers.

Every character begins character creation with a 1 in every attribute. They are then given 18 points with which to increase their attributes. These points are spent on a 1 for 1 basis up to attribute level 4. Afterwords it is 3 points for 1 attribute level.

(Example: You want to increase your Might to 5. You begin with a 1 for free. You spend 3 points to raise it to a 4. It then costs you another 3 points to raise it to a 5 for a total of 6 of your 18 attribute points.)

It is not recommended that characters be allowed to increase an attribute above 5 at this stage. Higher levels of attributes can still be purchased with bonus experience at the end of character creation.

What the numbers mean!

1: Feeble

2: Weak

3: The human average

4: fit

5: strong

6: The practical human limit (professional weight lifters are here)

7: Powerful

8: The actual human limit (Captain America being the peek of human physical perfection is here)

A 7 and 8 should not be attainable by a character without good reason and never without Game Master approval.

Attribute levels and wound degradation.

As you suffer wounds your attributes will degrade as a result of injury. Whatever your attribute consult this chart to see what your wounded levels are.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

-1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6

-1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6

-2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5

-2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5

Certain Perks and Flaws can adjust the wound penalties to be better or worse by effectively moving the numbers down or up a row.

(Example: If a character with a 4 in Toughness purchased the Perk Superior Toughness (Name is a work in progress) His numbers would instead be 4/4/3/3/2/2/1)

So some explanation for my choices here... of course it all needing to be tested for balance.

1) I worked on about 4 different set ups for the attribute degradation with wounds. These numbers worked the smoothest. The pattern means if you create some big monstrosity for the players to face with more then 7 wound levels you can easily follow the pattern or -1 every 2 to fill in it's extended life chart thing.

2) I wanted players to be able to purchase perks that allowed them to pick "good attributes", not just because they were high but because they stayed high longer. The number of times that can be purchased for the same attribute will be limited and it will get increasingly more expensive each time you do get it. I was also thinking that the second rank (which might be the last one) would change the patten, Instead of -1 every 2 it would become -1 every 3. Effectively that example would becomes. 4/4/4/3/3/3/2.

3) I might reduce the number of attributes down to 4. Right now I am testing the 6 because most games use 6. It's tried and true. It works. And I want to get the core mechanics tested a bit before I start playing with those.

4) I chose 18 points because I played around with a few numbers including 20 and 16. 20 seemed to give players all good stats with no real weak spots. 16 made it so you had to cripple something in order to get one stat up to 5. With 18 you can have 1 great stat, 2 good stats, and 3 decent stats. Or 2 great if you are willing to have other stats take a hit.

5) Negative attributes. The way I see this you always no matter what get at least 1 die to roll. But a -1 means if you are using a gun that gives 3 dice you end up rolling 2. You are already weak in that attribute and then you are wounded and trying to exercise the thing you were already basically crap at. Now it is making it worse.

Up next: Skills!

Character Creation Part 2: Skills!

(Note: I am comprising this list of skills using multiple games that range from rules light to not so rules light. The goal is to have a rules light list that still covers just about anything.The names of some of the skills are being changed from the source games to be more Tannhauser-y. Some skills in Tannhauser the board game will not appear here. Instead they are being made into other parts of the game. For instance command will not be a skill, instead it will be a Park that will offer an action that can be made with a skill roll to grant a bonus to teammates.) There may also be some times where more then one skill is appropriate for a given task. In this case use whichever skill is highest.

Skills

Skills are all of the learned abilities of a character. Anything a character could train and practice or study is covered by some skill inside of this list. As a result, it is skills that determine how easy it is for a character to get a success when rolling dice.

A player is given 30 points to spend to give his character skills.

Skills are purchased on a 1 for 1 basis up to level 4. They are then purchased at a rate of 2 points for 1 skill level beyond that.

It is not recommended that a player have more then a 5 in a skill at this stage in character creation. Higher levels may be purchased at the end of character creation with bonus experience.

Skill Specializations cost 3 points each.

Base Attributes

Skills are associated with a base attribute. This is the attribute that 99% of the time will be the one that determines the base dice pool for making a roll with that skill. There are some cases where a different attribute might make more sense. In those cases do whatever seems to make the most sense, but if there is a dispute about it or you are unsure, go with the base attribute.

Skill Specializations

A player may purchase a specialization for a skill he has that is at least level 4. Any skill below level 4 is considered too untrained to have developed enough to begin specializing. A specialization with a skill gives a bonus die to any roll that makes use of that specialization.

(Example: Jim decides his character who has a Agility of 4 and a Firearms of 5 is particularly good with pistols. He decides to purchase a specialization for Firearms: Pistols. This means when ever Jim's character makes a Firearms roll while using a pistol he gains 1 additional die to that roll.)

Specialized Skills

Some skills represent a large number of more specialized skills. For these skills you must choose which subset or discipline of that skill you are trained in and raise it as it's own skill. You can then take the skill again choosing a different discipline and raise it as another skill. Academics falls under this type of skill with disciplines such as History, Law, Literature, Religion, etc etc... You can then choose a skill specialization for any of your academics. Such as History: Roman Empire, granting you an additional die in any roll that makes use of the history of the Roman Empire.

Skill List and Descriptions

Skills marked with a * are Specialized Skills and a discipline must be chosen.

Academics*: Intellect: Various subjects of higher learning. Disciplines include but are not limited to, History, Law, Literature, Philosophy, and Religion.

Acrobatics: Agility: Keeping your balance, breaking your fall, contortions, tumbling.

Animal Handling: Willpower: This represents a characters ability to connect with, train, and care for animals. It can be used with wild animals to get them to calm down if they are aggressive. Using Intellect it can be used to identify a particular type of animals general behavior.

Archery: Agility: The use of archaic ranged weapons. This includes bows, cross bows, slings, and blow guns amongst others.

Art*: Intellect: Disciplines include Music, Painting, Photography, Sculpture, and writing.

Athletics: Might: Climbing, Jumping, Running, Swimming, and Throwing. If the run is a sprint, then Might. If the run is a marathon, then Toughness.

Brawl: Might: Unarmed combat and wrestling.

Con: Intellect: Lieing, cheating, Fast talk, Seduction, and cheating.

Craft*: Intellect: Disciplines include Carpentry, Chemistry, Electronics, Mechanics, Medicines Intellect to plan, Intellect, Agility, or Might to build.

Demolitions: Intellect: Defusing, Dynamite, Gunpowder, Improvised, Incendiary.

Diplomacy: Intellect: Etiquette, Leadership, Negotiations, Persuasion, Politics.

Drive: Agility: Cars, Buses, Mororcycles, Trucks.

Empathy: Intellect: Body language, Emotions, Intuition, Lies, Motives.

Firearms: Agility: Guns - Pistols, Rifles, Automatics.

Weaponry: Agility: Artillery, Cannons, Rockets. Intellect may be used if the weapon uses some kind of automatic or non agility based aiming mechanism.

Intimidation: Will Power: Interrogation, Orders, Stare downs, Threats, Torture.

Investigation: Perception: Searching, Intellect for research, enigmas, or interviews.

Larceny: Agility: Lockpicking, pickpocketing, safecracking, secuirty, sleight of hand.

Linguistics: Intellect: Codes, Deciphering, Lip Reading, Translations, Every 2 levels in this skill makes the character fluent in another language.

Medicine: Intellect: First aid mostly. But it can be used to diagnose simple problems. With specializations more advanced problems can be diagnosed and treated.

Melee: Might: Melee weapons such as swords and knives.

Pilot*: Agility: This covers the use of vehicles that do not follow the standard driving mechanisms. Disciplines include aircraft, boats, tanks.

Ride: Agility: Rdiing animals such as horse and camels.

Sneak: Agility: Used to hide, move silently, and otherwise be unnoticed.

Streetwise: Intellect: Black market, contacts.

Survival: Intellect: Used to track, gather food from nature, guide by stars, tell time with the sun, and other survival skills.

Up next, Perks!

Woops Double post... reserved for Perks then.

Forgot Skill Occult: Intellect: Used in the study of esoteric and arcane knowledge and in the casting of arcane spells and incantations.

Perks and Flaws.

Perks and flaws make up a body of options a player may take during character creation and often (but not always) gain through experience in the course of a game. Perks always cost points and grant beneficial bonuses to the player. Flaws always give points but come with their own detriments and drawbacks. A prime example of one that can be both perk and flaw is Luck. Taken as a Perk the player is given dice they can choose to add to any roll once per game. Taken as a flaw it is a dice penalty that GM chooses when to apply on a players roll (probably when it matters most... after all, it has to be worth those points). Some flaws may be bought off during the course of a game. This must always been done with a good reason and with GM approval. A persons eye sight cannot simply improve if they have the Impaired Vision flaw and decide to spend of experience points.

Perks and flaws come in 3 types. Resources make up a number of things the player has at his disposal. This can be a mentor, allies, contacts, fame, fortune, or artifacts. Unique amongst the perks and flaws, resources run the risk of being lost in relatively simple ways. An artifacts can be destroyed or stolen. Disrespect or abuse your contacts and they may stop informing you. Traits are natural born or learned abilities. A person may be significantly larger then average or they may have trained to be a quick draw. And finally Supernatural encompass a number of traits and abilities that exceed the natural norms. The Strosstruppen are inflicted with a number of flaws and perks that come from the supernatural category.

(More coming soon... this list is really long...)

Also a side note: Right now the character creation points are broken into categories based on the idea that all players should have x number of attributes, y number of skills, and z number of customization beyond that. This suits for initial testing of the systems because it puts all characters on a relatively level playing field. What I want to do eventually is assign all these various things that make up a character and just give them flat point values that a player will purchase from a single pool of points. This means they can make a character with many perks and flaws but few skills, or lots of skills and few attributes. That will be phase 2 after the core systems are shown to be working.

This sounds really cool I love to help in anyway,. I have been wanting to write a try and get publish a western setting COC game just been super busy with work Id love to help play test

few Ideas came to mind when I read this more of hey it would be cool if I could…….
Native American Union solder who is a Shaman
-Help keep the party alive
-Cure wounds that demons leave
-banish/blast demons
Basicly play a cleric esk roll
anther path for Shaman
skinwalker
more melee based class as in oh you got some half demons well that is neat BEAR FORM now they really are HALF demons.