Guys i'm having tough time facing axis heavy troops. Today we played a 150 pts game on a 3x3 board.

Axis used:

Lara + Hvy Flaks, Recon Grens + Sigrid, Sturpioniere, Marcus + Monkeys

Allies (me) fieldes:

Joe+recon, Hot Dog, BBQ Hammers+ OZZ

Then we played another game where i used hell boys instead of hot dog.

In both games the axis player won, i was able to eliminate his gorillas with flamer pretty quick but getting Lara and her squad down was going so sloowwww and in meantime i got shot down. In the second game only 2 figures of Axis were left being 1 Flak and Lara, but still the forces of evil prevailed...

All in all what are your ways of dealing with those DR guys?

I'm also looking for a nice combo with Ozz as i have a feeling that pairing him up with TB is a bit usless, on the other hand i don't feel the hammers and i'm beeing too carefull with that unit.. Any good ideas (i'm not planning to get the Grim Reapers any time soon:P)

The best medicine against Lara+Flaks/Hvy Grenadiers is the Mickey. It's maneuverable enough to be able to park in front of her, protecting your other units Then it can dish its considerable damage while Lara is powerless to do anything against it.

I agree with the Mickey comment, its a very under appreciated Medium walker variant. I wish the new Medium Walker Pack coming had the Recon Mickey variant for official use.

My first suggestion is the Corps Officers, gives you alot of flexibility AND alot of dice against infantry, sure you're not moving 2 spaces an activation but their abilities automatically succeed and the (likely under used) Smoke Mortar can be invaluable for breaking the enemies LOS. If you can throw in a Steel Rain for the points letting you have the Artillery Strike option than they are that much better.

Alternatively you can always use OZZ to block your enemies LOS by doing his Heroic Attack, since they aren't fielding any walkers, to allow your other troops to move up behind him. He is so great when you've got a tight corridor that you need sealed off for a turn. In this case it would be a Heroic Defense!

*Lska* (i'm not planning to get the Grim Reapers any time soon:P

^ hah.... My second suggestion is the Grim Reapers with Rhino, first you've got the option of BEZERK so you can move and basically do a sustained attack. Next since you're facing infantry types; 9 dice against the infantry Armor 3 at range and another 7 at close combat range.

Third is a really oddball team but has proven to have some hilarous results IF you can close in to attack... Sniper Team and The Chef, Roll 2 dice for each enemy squad member that have a 66% change to hit, bonus of being cheap points wise.

As a regular Axis player I would take Damage Resilient over Move 2 almost anyday.

Seems i need to do some shoping anyway:D All i've got are RCS Old Core Set , Sea Love, Monkeys ST and light walkers:P

These times will be tough until i get some new troops:D

You were out gunned. And too many heroes. Play the troops, not the heroes.

I had one hero less than my enemy. Also which one would you remove? Jeo is 4 dice for 18 pts and armor 3 troops without a hero loose too much to be afordable

Psykostevo said:

Glad someone else noticed this as well. Almost as many unique individuals compared with total amount of units.. So maybe more of a comp issue and not a DR problem at all.

Lska said:

As time goes on we've found Joe starting to become less and less relevant compared to either another squad of troops or even bringing along a Wildfire - Superior Reactive Fire fun! Sure rolling 4 initiative dice is pretty cool but at the same time rolling the same amount as your enemy doesn't put you at a disadvantage either just makes things even. From most of our games, besides adding hitpoints to a squad I've never seen Joe do anything really amazing in a game, now Rosie on the other hand has blown my walkers to bits with her 1/4 Bazooka on more than one occasion.

When I play I use no heroes and tons of cheap squads. I'm such a points mizer that I think Sturmpioniere are too expensive at 27pts. So I take the flamed out and swap in an MG and field them as Recon Grenadiers. For 16pts they have range, dice, wound, and anti tank ability. Joe can kiss my derrière. 4 dice is not meaningful, either is the badass skill from Johnny one eye. Heroes may have health, but most don't make up for it in firepower.

To help give an example, here is my Axis 150 point list. There are comparables for Allies.

Ludwig Panzer - 40

Hans Panzer - 24

Laser Grenadiers - 27

Recon Grenadiers - 16

Recon Grenadiers - 16

Recon Grenadiers - 16

Snipers - 10

149 points total.

Its not a perfect list because I would like to have more Recon Grenadiers. But 10/10 times it would own your list like it was 1859.

I think one thing we're somewhat forgetting with these lists is the terrain type (indoors or outdoors) and the battlefield layout. Is it mostly open with a few tank traps and crates with few walls or are there the new 3D buildings from Cerberus in there (which the Jump infantry can get over with ease) also if you're only talking 150 points than its going to be alot stricter as well of course and a squad lost early will suck alot more.

As time has gone on we've ordered units for each side which seem to fill in the tactical holes in the games we've played, which has been quite fun and seems to adjust the balance of power between the Axis and Allies. The Allies can really punish an Axis player who uses alot of Infantry Armor 2 with the Grim Reapers 15 attack dice or 9 against Infantry Armor 3.

As an Axis player I can play a bit defensively thanks to Damage Resilient armor 3 troops if its an open map, however when playing as the Allies I've always got to be on the offensive, if my troops aren't attacking they better be in some sort of cover because the hits add up quick when you don't have DR. I can't wait to see the SSU stats and what their theme is.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Recon Grenadiers point cost is different in Dust Warfare.

Yeah Recon grenadiers are highly effective for points. I'm also hoping that warfare gives us variable unit sizes. Would also help them sell me more unit boxes.

When I demoed Warfare at Gencon it was pretty much Dust tactics with 1 square == 6". They also had a system for making the walkers more resilient but I don't think it worked well with the heavy walkers. anyways I seriously doubt they will change the point costs.

Also i think we won't see bigger squads as that would brake the releases so far. Unless that would be a inf 1 thing. Some armor 1 SSU strelky would be great. I find Joe suprisingly important in missions when OZZ or fast flame troops are in the army list. The turn after your flame squad reached the enemy and didn't meanaged to flame down enemy units, or the turn after OZZ heroic charge on 150 can be game changing.

First of remember i have a limited army at my hands. No snipers, comand squads, arty hvy walkers grim reapers etc.

Second it was a inf only map, your Luther wouldn't have a chance to fire more than once. If you are so confident in no heros army we can mach up on play by forum on board game geek:D Altrough my rolls were a disaster weak in those past few days:/

As for the Recon Grenadiers i find them too cheap compared to recon boys. Their ability to kill walkers and good anti infantry rolls are way underpriced IMO.

I agree that Recon Grenadiers are a good value, but I think the real issue is that the Recon Boys are such a bad value for Allies. I hold out some small hope that they adjust the points downward for them in the next tournament rules set for this season, maybe to 12 or 13 points. It probably won't happen, but I can dream can't I? Heck, in the list above, I think you could make a pretty decent argument that having Foxtrot 13 + Crack Shots for the same amount of points (and money) is a better choice than Recon Boys because you get two activations, better cover saves, and some agility.

As for you list, I find that players get the most use out of Joe by not putting him in a squad and just hiding him in the back. It gives you an activation advantage over your opponent in addition to the extra initiative die. You can move him up to give you some extra support "pot shots" near the end of the game much like one might advance

I would also swap out the Hot Dog for a Mickey. You don't even need to buy a new model to pull this off! The Mickey's speed, self repair, and awesome anti infantry ability (even against armor 3) has never really let me down. If I'm going to include 1 walker, its going to be a Mickey. I've also been pretty surprised by the lack of Gunners in a number of Allied lists I've seen online. Maybe I'm the only one, but I feel like they are a really good value for 20 points with the bazooka and 4 UGL's. The UGL's have been a huge help when digging enemy infantry out of tank traps or giving you several extra shots on a sustained fire turn.

Something like:

Joe : 18

Mickey: 35

BBQ: 30

Hammers: 26

Ozz: 24

Crack Shots: 10

Foxtrot 13: 5

This keeps the basic "form" of your original list intact while giving you an almost 2 to 1 activation advantage to your Axis opponent. You'll also be a pretty heavy favorite to win the initiative and force your opponent to go first (depending on the tactical situation), which will make your activation advantage all the more pronounced. Ofcourse, this is just IMO and your mileage may vary.

I must consider using a mickey even if i don't have the medium walker box. Could just print the card and remove one of the barells:D

As for Joe he was one of my list minis to die and i like the few extra hitpoints on DD, they are acually at painting so recon boyse where taken as a filler for a 20 point hole;)

Lska said:

That's what I did for a while.

Lska said:

Early on it was talked about as being one of the bigger things about Warfare, and I think they would probably need variable size squads anyway with making walkers more resilient.

blkdymnd said:

Iam afraid thez will go trough the most non problem road. increase squad siyes but not in the boxes. I. e. zou want a platoon of rangers_ buz enough normal 5 man squads and join them into a DW platoon.

Back to the DR issue, I have seen phaser weapons do well against the Axis Armor 3 infantry. I am not a big fan but since they ignore cover and keep a squad of red devils in heavy cover, and it'll be on the dice.

Don't know how it goes on with the Devils but Honey is kinda overpriced IMO, I haven't meanaged to use it in some awsome great attack. Mostly it deals 2-3 wounds, even on sustained and that kina hurts:/

The devils cost the same as the honey, they throw out 6 dice each hit producing 3 more dice. My son loves them seen him get 14 hits against Lara and a squad of heavy recons with sustained and lots of luck.

Lska said:

I tried the phazers on my unpainted Honey for one game and gave up on them, too erratic. I'm sure the Red Devils with Action Jackson are quite good, it is just too much randomness for me and I would rather take a squad of Infantry 2 troops with a hero since the Red Devils lack the speed of the other infantry armor 3 units.

Now the Wildfire with its Superior Reactive fire has been awesome in our games, as seen in my thread in Painting Techniques, I managed to put the weapons from the "Jockey Walker" on a Blackhawk.

... Still think you need the Grim Reapers.

Maximum said:

Yeah, both my Wildfire and my Heinrich have been worth their weight in gold after I learned to use them a little better. I suspect that they will only get better as aircraft are released. Reactive fire can really save your bacon in many missions if you set it up right.

I haven't had much luck with the Honey and feel thats its a "feast or famine" unit. If you roll well, then it can dominate. If you don't, its invisible. I've had better luck with my Red Devils led by Action Jackson. His assault ability helps them to get into the fight much quicker.