I have a question about the Kara "Starbuck' Thrace Expert Pilot Character Skill when being used with an Exuctive Order Skill issued by another player.

1. Kara "Starbuck Thrace: Expert Pilot - When you start your turn piloting a viper, you may take 2 actions during your action step instead of 1.

2. Excutive Order - Action: Choose any other player. That Player may move their character and the take 1 action OR not move and take 2 actions. Limit of 1 "Executive Order" card used per turn.

Ok, if you have played as Starbuck then you know that most of your time can be spent in 2 places, the brig and sickbay.

The brig because of her Insubordinate character drawback (Insubordinate - When a player chooses you with the "Admiral Quarters" location reduce the difficulty by 3.) This makes it easy for an unrevealed cylon to always keep her in the brig because of skill checks (skill Check 7 Tactics / Leadership - 3 for "Insubordinate = 4) even with other players trying to keep her out.

Sicbay because when you finally get her into spcae her viper gets damaged or destroyed with a dice roll above 4.

So this means that most of the time if you are trying to keep starbuck in a viper you're fighting a losing battle.

Now to the meat of my question(s):

IF you can get Starbuck's tail into a Viper, can another player issue an executive order to let starbuck use her Expert pilot skill. Before you rush to answer think this out. I am aware of the When you start your turn qualifier. However, I think that the "Excutive Order" basically allows you to surrender your turn to Starbuck. Think about a turn: 1) Receive Skill Cards. 2) Move. 3) Perform Action) 4) Crisis 5) Activate Cylon Ships 6) Prepare for Jump.

Now when used with an "Executive Order":

1) Recieve Skill Cards - Mute if you are already planning to use an "Executive Order"

2) Move- If you are going to use an "Executive Order" then this means nothing bacause you will not be activating a location.

3) Perform Action - Use "Executive Order" basically ending your turn because everything that follows is automatic. At this point you are choosing to surrender you turn because if you follow the "Executive Order" the player you isue it to CAN do whatever THEY choose. If that player is Starbuck, is she NOT starting a turn? This can work either in favor of the humans or the cylons depending on Starbuck's loyalties. If she is human then she can use this to help the fleet (This usually means attacking Cylon ships). Or if she's a Cylon she can cause alot of damage (just part of the game).

4) Crisis - You flip a card and take care of it (Automatic for any player other than Revealed Cylon)

5) Activate Cylon Ships - Crisis card tells you which type of ship to activate. (Automatic)

6) Prepare for jump - If there is a Jump Symbol on the Crisis Card then move 1 closer to Auto Jump (Automatic)

I ask this question because I am a huge fan of the television show not because I want to make Sarbuck an Uber Character. I bought this game BECAUSE of the television show. I believe that most of the people that play this game feel the same. So I want you to think about the spirit of the question and the television show. Yes Starbuck spends alot of time in the brig on the televeision show. However, when the fleet encounters cylons, isn't she let out of the brig to take care of the Cylons? Just watch the mini-series. I haven't seen an episode where she has set in the brig while the Galactica is under attack and Adama is busy performing skill checks to get her out. Usually Bill Adama is busy trying to take care of something else.

PLEASE REPLY WITH WELL THOUGHT OUT RESPONSES!!! I am looking for an answer to this dilemma that makes sense and fits with the spirit of the television show. I do want to hear well thought out responses either for or against using these actions together.

Thank you,

Darth Paul

Darth Paul said:

Hi there. First let me just say I always think before I speak

Also, sure it's fun to play in the spirit of the show, but the game also needs grounded rules to keep players from running amok.

I have to disagree with you and say that when you use executive order on someone, it's not the same as letting them have your turn in full. You are only giving them your ability to move and take an action. It's not just starbuck who would be affected by this. Other characters also have special 'on your turn' abilities like Adama (all level 1 skill cards count as positive to a skill check) and Helo (re-rolls on HIS turn).

This is for balance purposes. From a gaming perspective, the 'on your turn' argument which you tried valiantly to circumvent response to still stands.

Otherwise, everyone could just EO the same player over and over again to get the best results (like Boomer for example. Just have boomer stack the crisis deck every turn so the humans always get a great card). Also, it just takes the fun away and makes each character less special (weaker characters could just rely on characters with 'better' abilities to get the job done and it takes the strategy element out of it.

I hope that answer works for you.

If it doesn't though, I'll try to debate it from a fan's perspective. Let's say it's Starbuck's 'turn' in the game/show. On her turn she's a lot more active and zipping around in her viper. Then on Adama's 'turn' he calls her from Galactica and gives her an order 'EO' in game turns. Suddenly she's distracted and has to do someone else's bidding instead of following her instinct (which knowing Starbuck she probably wouldn't do because she's insubordinate). So hey, in story terms she probably wouldn't accept the EO card anyway!

This latter response was a joke, for my real opinion, please refer to the above comments.

The thing to keep in mind here is that this is a game, and some things need to be done to balance the game over the show's theme. Just because Starbuck should be out in a Viper fighting the cylons doesn't mean that is going to happen in the game. It should, but that won't always be the case.

First, let's look at Executive Orders. You say that when you play EO, you are turning your turn over to another player. Well, that is not the case. Before you play your EO card, you draw your skill cards, and you Move. Drawing skill cards is not "moot." Skill cards are incredibly vital to this game - try passing the Cylon "Inbound Nukes" Super Crisis card when nobody has cards in their hands! Then you play EO, so in essence you are giving up your Action to allow another player to take actions in your place. That character doesn't draw skill cards, because it is not their turn. They also may not use their card abilities (in most cases) because it is not their turn. They are using your action for their own purposes. Giving Starbuck EO while in a Viper doesn't give her three actions, only 1 move + 1 action or 2 actions. Another way to think of this is you have just allowed Starbuck to take 5 possible actions -- the two or three shes receives when it is her normal turn to act, and the bonus actions for you giving her an EO. That is all. Allowing a character to gain both skill cards and use their special ability with an EO totally changes the games dynamic, and can be game breaking.

Now, I want to look at your cylon throwing Starbuck in the Brig analogy. You say that the unrevealed cylon wants to throw Starbuck in the Brig to limit her usefulness. But as a cylon, is this your best move? What has Starbuck done to deserve to be put in the Brig, especially if she is the only Pilot in the game. By blindly throwing her in the Brig, you are practically screaming "I am not be be trusted!" That can help ensure that you are next thrown into the Brig, and people will not trust you. As a cylon you do not want to broadcast to the rest of the group your true loyalty, because they will throw you in the Brig. And if they don't, they either agree with you that Starbuck is a threat is are perhaps not very skilled at the nuances of the game yet. And if the Cylon player wants to drop some high value cards to keep Starbuck in the Brig while the cylons are attacking, that is the cylon player's option. They just have to hope they don't tip their hands too much in doing so.

**SPOILERS**

Besides, if we truly wanted the game to more accurately reflect the show, Chief and Saul each should get two Loyalty cards during the Sleeper Phase, and Balter should only draw a second card if using the Sympathizer rules in a 4 and 6 player game, and only draw that second card during the sleeper agent phase. Bill would get to use the Admiral's Quarters on occasion, Boomer should always be allowed to switch her You Are A Cylon ability to the "send a character to sick bay" version, and Laura should be able to temporarily cure/ignore her Limitation. I feel that the designers struck a successful balance between the essence of the show and the needs to keep game play balanced.

JerusalemJones said:

**MORE SPOILERS**

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT ABOUT BALTAR! HE'S A CYLON DAMMIT!!! ahhhhhhh I need to see the rest of this season...

It can't be Ellen, she's the second worst character in the show (I'm so glad Kat is dead )

Also, Roslin's 'terminal illness' should go away during the sleeper phase and come back after 7 distance points for the new 'relapse of terminal illness' phase.

Also, the chief should have the option to savagely beat random female crew members and send them to sickbay when he feels like it.

Sorry, I think I'm funnier than I probably am.

Oh and Helo should be able to release Sharon from the brig just by saying 'She's carrying... my child!"

iceberg84 said:

No, that was pretty funny. That was a horrible, horrible scene to watch (made my guts churn), but it was lol funny, in a dark and sick sort of way.

Good catch on a Helo ability, too. I wanted to come up with one, but couldn't.