richsabre said:

Did Aragorn and Arwen ever have the son that Arwen saw in her vision? (I am assuming here that the movies offered an accurate portrayal of the book in this regard)

Yeh sounds like a choice between going home to live with mum and dad or staying in touch with Arwen/ being in the Grey Company. Being a Tolkien fan, like yourself, its frustrating knowing that there are a million more questions to be answered! Have you seen the 'Hunt For Gollum' on You tube? Theyve given it a good go and done it for the enjoyment of fans. Respect due.

Pericles said:

aragorn and arwen had a son eldarion telcontar (telcontar was the house name that aragorn's lineage became when he became king elessar of the reunited kingdom)- i would recommend reading the tale of aragorn and arwen in the trilogy appendices- its a few pages long and it actually almost brought me to tears.... ...i know laugh at me haha

Interestingly enough tolkien once had a plan to make The New Shadow- a book set in the reign of aragorns son, but dropped the idea!!! i didnt know that until recently, however i think it was probably the best descision of tolkiens life- reading the plot line, it sounded err.. (sorry master tolkien) terrible...even tolkien himself stated it as not worth doing

Ted Sandyman said:

i have seen it, and yes it was very entertaining, however it would have been nice for them to chose a different style, as it had peter jackson written all over it- im not sure if they meant to or not

I'm just posting here because each time I click on it, it isn't considered "Read" and my OCD in making everything on the first page marked as "Read" is interfering with my enjoyment of this forum. This happens sometimes when posts are edited when another post has been made with a timestamp later than its original one.

Bomb said:

thats fine- it was doing the same with me

richsabre said:

By the way, I was kidding about it interfering with my enjoyment of the forum. But it was driving me crazy that I couldn't get rid of it! :-)

Bomb said:

Hey im not complaining, you bumped my thread

Thanks for this and for the rest of your "Tolkienology" series - you've got me re-reading Unfinished Tales which is definitely a good thing!

It's a fascinating little question as to the "choice" of Elrohir and Elladan regarding mortality. I'm not convinced that it is logical that they would have the choice at all (I know - I think - that Tolkien indicated that they did in a letter, but then of course Tolkien was himself in a continuous process of rethinking and rewriting all kinds of points, and as a result there are many gaps and inconsistencies within a lot of this "background" material).

As I see it, there are actually two separate choices:

1. The Choice of Luthien - the option that always appears to have been open to Elven women to marry mortal Men and thereby sacrifice their own immortality, this choice being made in the First Age by Luthien (obviously) and others.

2. The Choice given to Elrond and his brother Elros at the end of the First Age, this choice being given by virtue of their unusual mixed lineage. Elros of course chose mortality and founded Numenor, Elrond chose Elf-hood and immortality.

As I see it, choice (2) committed not just Elrond and Elros but also all their descendants to the original decision. This is certainly the case for Elros - his descendants, the Kings of Numenor, did not themselves get the chance to opt for immortality, and indeed later came to bitterly resent this decision, resulting in the downfall of Numenor.

Therefore, by this logic, Elrond's decision would have committed all his children to Elf-hood. Arwen, in TLOTR, is separately able to make the choice of Luthien like some of her forebears, but Elrohir and Elladan would not have this option.

Leaving this aside, it is a fascinating speculation as to what choice they would have made. It's pretty clear from their role in TLOTR that they aligned themselves closely with Aragorn and the Dunedain, and I think it's clear that in the undetailed backstory they have spent much time riding the wild with the Rangers, slaying Orcs and so on. All this points in the direction of the choice of mortality. You could even imagine the scenario where one twin chooses to stay and the other to depart.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed running Elrohir and Elladan in the game - it's great that these characters who are minor in terms of their role in the book, but are clearly among the mightiest and most nobly descended of all the peoples of Middle-earth, get their chance in the sun.

Thanks again.

thanks for stopping by jjeagle, those are certainly some interesting points you make, and i agree - im pleased theyve recieved some spotlight due to this game

rich

jjeagle said:

I was about to reply before I read your post, which I think explains things quite well, thanks! The choice that Elladan/Elrohir had was simply whether to remain in Middle-Earth or leave, not the choice of which race to join (such as Elros/Elrond).

In other posts (no need to repeat the same grudges here), we've discussed some of the "liberties" the movies take with the characters. Hugo Weaving's portrayal of Elrond seems to be very critical of mankind in general. While the book "version" of Elrond definitely has his doubts about mankind, Hugo seems to push it into real disdain. I actually find this pretty intriguing: much of Tolkien's stories stress the importance of relationship and family/comradeship. In my mind, I've always wondered if, beyond a general distrust of a race that seems to be easily led astray, Elrond harbors some deeper anger towards a race that "took" his brother away from him. On the other side, that is likely the very obvious reason he shelters Aragorn, while at the same seemingly pushing him to greatness. As the heir to his beloved brother, I would imagine that it's a "tough love" attempt at preserving an honorable line for him….