Well, thank you no1 for clearing up (in part) that foggy area! So, 'freelance' is an inappropriate term, it seems...FFG calls the shots...good to know!

HB - i'm pretty sure the rulebook says the Deathwatch are everywhere...limiting games to one publisher-supported sector is an option...hence the question why put all this focus on an option?

Zappiel said:

...

What do you think the term freelancer means? A freelancer is just a writer who doesn't work directly for the company, instead getting paid per commission. He still has to write what the company wants him to write.

Zappiel said:

Because it makes for a more focused, coherent game. It allows the publisher to create an interesting setting full of plot hooks for GMs to use and for FFG to set adventures in. If they focuses more on the other options people would be complaining about the page count wasted on irrelevant material.

H.B.M.C. said:

Well said!

I havn't spent alot of time in Jericho Reach yet, but Achillus Crusade was kinda disapointning. If we're giving honest critiques and done berating each other, I would just like to submit that i find it irritating that there's two books covering such similar material. I forsee alot of issues with the execution. What i would prefer to see is three books instead, each one covering a salient in detail. There is a 40 and 50 dollar book, so we get to pay 90 for so much overlap, where they could have made 3, charged 30 and convinced us all we got a great deal. Or, even added 20 or so pages of creatures for each instead of just a pile of new ones for tyranid and inexplicably none for either other faction, charged us 40 for each, made an extra 30 dollars and fixed the various gripes of MotX. I await my round of verbal abuse.

You'll get no abuse from me, Lionus; yer post seems perfectly cromulent, and I agree.

Must disagree with Darck Child, though...the Deathwatch existed in TT long before any rpg existed, long before Jericho Reach got cobbled together...your suggestion is, in a word, ludicrous.

But that Zap is entirely not the point. The point is to make a framework for a game that reaches the most people the most easily and gives them the most enjoyment and to do that they had to create context within which to set the game, the setting as it were. Yes in Table Top they contrive reasons so you can have giant mash ups, but the story in table top is pretty non-existent. Also if you want to play TT then go play it and stop complaining that a related system isn't the exact same thing. Because honestly the reasoning behind the TT free for alls is a bit of a cluster **** of nonsense. If taken from a coolly logical standpoint using the lore on each species as an understanding it doesn't make sense that any of them COULD ever encounter each other in certain combinations.

If you want a more generalized setting then just buy the antagonist books from all four WH40k RPGs and create it yourself. You complain that certain things in the setting don't have everything but the setting does limit that, and on purpose so as not to create the aforementioned cluster ****.

Here's my bottom line. If you want Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Tyranids, Chaos, Rakghouls, Stryxis, Hrud, Enslavers ect, ect ect.... I think that would be at least four books worth of information, not just one or two books. Fortunately for someone who wants create a generalist 40k setting each of the four lines have (or soon will have) their own antagonist book, so you just buy those and happily create your generalist setting. Any complaining about gouging I will accredit to not fully thinking about how many books it would take to cover all those foes. All that is required from you is a little bit of stat adjusting which you've already stated you're good at, so there shouldn't be any problem.

Right, my C1.886 (Imperial Credit to Throne conversion rate is pretty good atm)

I'm glad FFG publish a bunch of additional fluff books. I don't buy the ones that are just fluff related (I prefer to make up my own), but the ones with additional rules I can gank I buy happily. I don't feel like I'm being gouged or that FFG are personally trying to destroy my gaming happiness quotient - hell, I doubt my GHQ has been higher with many other companies. If I don't like the look of something I don't buy it. No harm, no foul.

So you don't like the Jericho sector? Don't use it. You hate the Calixis region of space? Don't use it. You think n01 is a talentless hack who is secretly manipulating FFG to promote an agenda that will only culminate in blood and fire? Don't use his works (also, don't post it on the forums - you come across as a bit of a jerk and, let's be honest, you probably shouldn't call someone out like that unless you're willing to show off your work on the site to prove that you are actually better than he is. At which point we'll have some sort of fluff/rules writing deathmatch which I am strangely okay with watching).

I know this is the internet, and I know what that means. But we're all here, on this forum, because we love Deathwatch. We might have issues with some of it, sometimes quite petty issues (Why isn't Terinator armour listed under Relics? Huh? HUH?!), but we talk about it because it's fun and we take pleasure in it. Let's try to keep that in mind and not start getting into flame wars and the like about things that we just have differing opinions on. Let's leave that for important stuff.

So, n01? Let me just say I appreaciate your work, and that of the other writers who I don't specifically have contact with and I can't pass on thanks to personally. Jericho Reach is a pretty awesome book, even if I'll never use 90% of it in my own games

Gentlemen! Allow me to clear a few things up...

It is my position that a game's system trumps its arbitrary setting, and that the chosen sample setting must not take precedence over rules or general playability. The setting is a pre-made example, so players can play right away, without having to worry about such things fresh out of the box.

A game's over-arching setting, or milieu, or 'universe,' however, is something else.......with Deathwatch, we are familiar with the over-arching milieu: it is the grimdarkness of future 40,000 years from now, with space orks, space elves, space demons, etc.

Now, with Deathwatch, it has two main selling facets: i) it's a game, so will appeal to game players; and ii) it's set in the warhammer 40,000 universe, known world-wide for 25 years, and will appeal to fans of that particular wargame.

Now, absolutely, a game should have its own setting so that it may be played right away with little fuss. Makes it easy on those of us who just wanna game.

But, since a lot of its selling appeal is based on the 40k milieu, such a game should - nay, must! - also provide as much 40k material as possible, or else they end up alienating the one target demographic they knew they were going for when they bought the licence from GW in the first place. If they just wanted a space marine game, they could easily have made one up on their own; but no, they chose to licence 40k from GW: they want the wargamers to play their game; they're counting on the deep pockets of the wargamers (or, ahem, their parents) to help float their rpg line.

An rpg should provide all the tools the gm and players need to craft enjoyable games. If yer gonna sell a wh40k game, you gotta make sure it's got all the 40k goodness people expect, or they will complain. Just saying: "it's a 40k game, but it's set in Jericho Reach, so none of that other 40k stuff matters here!" is, umm, not cricket. Won't fly. WH 40K means space orks tusslin' with space marines, it means eldar fighting chaos, it means tyranids eating everybody. Simply saying: "there's no orks here" doesn't work.

Now, if this was just a space marine game in some random future universe, none of this would matter, cause we'd be playing in FFG's made up world and havin' fun and the universe would be just the equivalent of the jericho reach; but we ain't: we're playin' in 40k, and that means something.

Also, I'm not slagging Jericho per se; indeed, much of what i've read i like; but i want to be able to choose whether i buy into it or not, without it being the mandatory setting for my game, and without FFG slyly including necessary rules additions in setting-specific books (and i'm not saying they've done that with Deathwatch yet...necessarily...but it's something i am keen to prevent).

And to clarify another point: actually, there seem to be a lot of misinterpretations of my words...don't recall even insinuating that anyone specific was a talentless hack...or that i hate jericho....or that I called someone out (wait: is this from the freelance comment? aww, come on! I stated my assumptions re freelance work with dw, and he clarified the point by stating that FFG tells him within very narrow limits what to write, and i repeated back the clarification for confirmation...simple enuf...not sure how that's 'calling him out'...besides, he didn't write the fluff in that particular example, he wrote the crunch...so, yeah, ye lost me there...)

And, to come back on course - professor: what is the 10% of Jericho Reach that you are gonna use? and what stood out for you as particularly 'awesome'?

It's all good, Z - not calling you out on slamming down a certain writer who happens to frequent this forum; that's more a general statement cause it seems to happen an awful lot around here.

In addition to a bad habit I have (stealing details of various worlds to flesh out individual nations/hives/city-states for my preferred setting), the new 'Nid stats will come in very handy. The talk on demeanours has me thinking that I'll probably start handing out custom Demeanours based on awesome events rather than fate points (you manage to get into a kaiju-style fight with a Heirodule Bio-titan in a Haephastus Ore-seeker? You can have the Demeanor "Godzirra hunter"), and the anomaly charts for Hadex, with modification, will probably become the basis for a new Warp-travel encounters table, cause I don't really like the one in the Rogue Trader corebook.

Not to mention scoring ideas for the crusade I'm running; vaguely similar to what's going on in Jericho, just over a smaller scale with arguably higher stakes and stress for the PC's

Emperor protect me, this is my first post. Lets hope this goes well.

I would like to try and point something out as I think this may hopefully put some of this tension to bed. If not at least I tried I guess.

Anyway after reading your latest comment Zap I believe that you are confusing the issue to some degree. You are displaying demand for a product that doesn't exist, but criticizing this one for not being that product, and it never advertised itself as that product you are showing the demand for. Let me try to use an analogy here;

You walk into McDonalds (or fast food joint of your choice). You are hungry for bacon (don't deny it, we all are). You look at the menu and see no bacon products on there (heresy I know but its just for the analogy, no one needs to die). You decide to get the 'Cheeseburger'. Upon receipt of said burger you take a look at it, then walk back to the counter and ask 'WHERE IS MY BACON WITCH!?' (as clearly there is psychic dickery afoot!). To which they reply 'You ordered the Cheeseburger sir. No bacon is sold here. That is why it is not on the menu sir.'. To which you would of course reply with 'NONE OF YOUR TRICKERY HERETIC I WANTED BACON!'. To which they reply 'We have no bacon sir! We do not sell that. That is why it is not on the menu!'. And that could go back and forth all night.

This is sort of how I see this issue. Deathwatch is not, was not, and will not (well as of right now as far as I am aware) be advertised as a Deathwatch across the Imperium game. Knowing the demand is there is good since it shows people want it, and good business sense follows supply and demand, but it is unfair to hold this product to a standard that it never tried to portray itself as having in the first place.

And here is the kicker, I agree with what you want to a degree. This issue has actually come up in discussion before in our group (HBMC's Roll Perils) and was hashed out to death. Even though I now understand why they have to do things like they do, I would still love to see a unified ruleset across all the games. Something like an Imperium RPG rather than just DH, RT, DW etc. But we have to start small and show the demand for it, and be willing to accept that even if a huge demand can be shown there may be circumstances outside of FFG's control (who knows what GW may try to pull down the line right?) that prevent that from happening. It sucks but such is life.

If you feel forced to buy their books that may sound like an addiction, as none besides the core rule books are necessary for play and the rest are just additions to the existing set that are entirely optional. I think this point has been argued to death though and can't really be put any simpler. But I hear ya and I want to help which is why I am actually working on starting a thread to collate these sort of perceptions.

During play test, on top of going over rules and fluff technicality and feel to report back to HBMC, I try to use my customer service background to try and see how the book is going to be perceived by the consumer (thats you!). That is so I can raise what I believe to be things that will cause conflict in the fanbase due to how they are perceived. Funnily enough there have been more than a few things thrown around in this thread that I have raised before (like the feeling of being 'forced' to buy something else to get a complete product), but had nothing to go on besides my personal experience. So I am thinking it is time to actually get evidence of these sorts of things.

Ultimately I want it to accomplish a few things;

1. Somewhere more appropriate for people to vent these sorts of issues where they can be kept out of the way of others who just want to enjoy the threads without any drama.

2. Give me evidence for justifying my thoughts on these perception issues so it is hard(er) for them to be ignored when I raise them through feedback reports.

3. Give everyone an outlet to try and bring these sorts of things up through an unofficial channel to FFG (From the Emperor, to FFG, to HBMC, to me, power shifts easily in the brotherhood).

I'm seeing HBMC tomorrow and we will be discussing some stuff (how to not agitate his fanbase to start, whilst I might agree with some if not all of the things he has said, I don't agree with how they were said and words are being had, please don't hate him as he is only human) and I will be putting together the thread then with the intent to post it up on Sunday (Australian time, like regular time but full of spiders). So please stay tuned for that as I do want to get all that feedback as I think it is useful and whole heartedly intend to take it on board.

In the mean time however I don't think this back and forth is really accomplishing much besides just building some unnecessary bad blood. So any chance we can keep it chillaxed until I can get my thread up (this never usually happens I swear!) and keep the discussion to just the content in the book until then? It would do me a solid and go a long way to building the community rather than dividing it.

And just in case;

I don't represent FFG in any official capacity. The opinions expressed above are entirely my own, but I am willing to share. I apologise if I have offended anyone as that is not my intention. I like to keep it jovial and I know my humor can be odd. I just want to help make the best game possible so we can all play together some day.

And please don't read this as me having tried to push this issue before and HBMC ignoring it. I know exactly what he sends of my reports to FFG and I know nothing is trimmed out (besides the odd personal reference for his amusement). And please don't read that as FFG not listening. FFG is people, people are fallible. If we can show them what we want, and how we want it, with quantitative and civil arguments then one day we may just get what we want. But we need to do it the right way. No one wants to be remembered as THAT GUY for any reason. No one here has reached that point just yet, so lets keep it that way.

As an aside thanks to all the writers and contributers to the line so far. It has been an absolute pleasure to see the game evolve over the years (I think it has been years, it certainly feels like it) and I can't wait to see what the (GRIMDARK) future holds for it and others like it.

So to all the writers, artists, FFG accountants (no one ever thanks the finance team who sit in front of a PC all day looking at boring financial spreadsheeets and wondering where they all went wrong with their lives), other FFG staff, and most importantly the fans. Thanks and stay classy bros.

I'm happy to discuss this more with anyone via PM (this forum does have a PM function right? I am such a noob here) if they want.

Atma01

(Please forgive any spelling errors, my browser doesn't seem to like posting here, and I cannot into their paste function properly >.<)

Professor Kylan: good on you, sir! I am glad we're not swingin' axes at each other's faces anymore! And glad to hear what you liked about Jericho (the book). (more tyranid goodness...sigh...and custom demeanors?...interesting...)

Atma-01: the Emperor protects, it seems....you have written a thoughtful post, sir, a true joy to read; but....

"...Deathwatch is not, was not, and will not...be advertised as a Deathwatch across the Imperium game..."

...I must take exception to that statement. This one statement seems to be the very crux of our division...because I know that statement to be false. Now, I do not have me books with me, but I know, for a fact, that my copy of the Deathwatch core rulebook includes all kinds of information designed specifically for non-Jericho Reach adventuring. I don't have the page numbers at hand...but it's true. Perhaps a more telling indicator of my premise is the actual title of the game: it's not called 'Jericho Reach, the Game'; it's Deathwatch.

Now, I understand that the game designers have chosen, probly wisely, to include a setting within the game to get folks started...and I have no problem with that. But, again, this is not a jericho reach game, it's a space marine game, a wh40k game.

Frankly, I'm sure many would be quite surprised to hear this game is only for use in Jericho reach....most of us are undoubtedly playing it wrong, then...

...and I'm sure you're not saying that!

I AM curious, however, as to how exactly y'all came to the conclusion that Deathwatch is NOT an across-the-imperium game...

...australian time...full of spiders...priceless! (and true!)

Zappiel said:

Expectations based on previous games.

Every 40kRP game has deliberately focussed on a little corner of the universe that specifically exists to be explored by that game's materials. To expect something completely different for Deathwatch seems frankly counter-intuitive.

Zappiel said:

No, it's not. The Deathwatch RPG is a spare marines game in the Jericho Reach. It can certainly be adapted to other settings (and even provides a small amount of support for that), but the game is about the Deathwatch in the Reach, not the DW in the 40k setting.

macd21 said:

It was made into this!

Strip DW of all the supplements to the corebook (as most pro-Jericho-Reach-supporters strangley suggest) and you got a basic DW themed SM game which only includes a starting setting that happens to take place in the Jericho Reach. This assumption is based on the fact that there are NO Jericho-Reach related game mechanics in the corebook.

Zap, me and some others here simply argue that it should stayed that way!

FFG could turn out hundreds of Jericho-Reach sourcebooks and we won't bother (I would even buy some), as long as they don't intermingle game mechanics with the setting.

The reason why they had to include a starting setting at all is because a small percentage of customers may don't know much about W40K and including a whole universe guide in one soucebook was pretty to much and probably the fact that GW don't want their existing universe being altered by an additional source over which they don't have a tight control.

But FFG realized (or planned it from the start) that separating fluff and crunch would mean that their customers only buy the books which suit their style and so both groups are "forced" (if they want to expand their games with official material) to buy all books.

Of course, based on our experience with DH an RT, we could have predicted this marketing strategy but some of us hoped FFG would do better this time especially after our first positive experience with RoB.

Kain McDogal said:

So you're saying that FFG should have used a publishing model that would have been unprofitable and killed the game before the year was out in order to cater to the small number of customers who don't like the JR fluff?

I don't think that's a reasonable demand.

Kain McDogal said:

No, it wasn't. It was intended to be that from the start. You may dislike the idea of it, but that doesn't mean that the Deathwatch RPG and the Jericho Reach setting aren't deliberately interlinked, or that they haven't been since the very beginning.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I guess I didn't find the right words. I don't say it wasn't intended to be that from the start, in fact I can't say anything about how it was planned because I can't see into other people's heads. It's about how it could be played and that was pretty generic for the Corebook, RoB, First Founding and to a lesser degree MoX (Achillus Assault doesn't even count because it was mostly useless blabla and no crunch), but Jericho Reach had a lot of game mechanics (accept for the Nids)which are interwoven with the Jericho-Reach setting and I really don't like that.

It's ok if FFG tries to make money by forcing both groups of players to buy one book, but it's not ok when one group is treated poorly. Unfairness is the whole point behind this discussion. Of course the Jericho-Reach supporters like this book because they got the big piece from the cake!

FFG should put a huge sign in front of the cover: Warning - Contains game mechanics which can only be played in the Jericho Reach!

Kain McDogal said:

At which point it has become utterly evident that you cannot be reasoned with. Firstly because you're one of those irritating people who insist on using the slang "fluff" and "crunch" (terms which, in this particular context, I find detestable) for background and rules. Secondly because you're one of those irritating people who seems to believe that background material is irrelevant to a Roleplaying Game (which is, as far as I'm concerned, equivalent to saying that moving pictures are irrelevant to a film). Thirdly, because you seem entirely willing to spew your vitriolic opinion as if it were universal fact, and I frankly don't have time for that.

You may regard background material in RPG books to be "useless blabla". You are not the spokesperson for all 40kRP fandom... none of us are.

Personally, I would loathe it if books were divided so that they were either all-background or all-rules, mainly because I fervently believe that the rules are a means of expressing the background, and the background exists to provide context for the rules, and the two are irrevocably intertwined to that end. I want, and like, books that have both in, and I'm demonstrably not alone in that regard.

Now, could you kindly stop ranting about this... it's getting old.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Agreed. The problem, Kain, is that you are insisting that FFG are doing something wrong with their approach. They aren't. They aren't catering to your exact needs, but they are under no obligation to do so. The game that you wish they'd released is a game that I and many other customers would be far less interested in. FFG could have chosen to target your preferences, but chose to target ours instead. Presumably they felt there was more money in it. They've provided plenty of material that can easily be adapted to running a wider 40k campaign.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Same goes for you, the door swings both ways!

I mentioned Achillus Assault (with harsh words) because it doesn't belong in my list as it has no setting interwoven game mechanics and as such can be even seen as a GOOD publication from my point of view because I don't have to send my players through the Jericho Reach setting only to try out new game mechanics like in The Jericho Reach. I don't even have to buy it and won't miss anything to play DW. Not so with Jericho Reach. As far as the new Jericho-Reach specific approach on DW goes I shouldn't be surprised if future game mechanics would be based on the new ones presented in The Jericho Reach and so it will go on and on, from a game which has satisfied all players to a game CHANGED in favour of one group of players.

I wouldn't even have started DW if I would have disliked it from the start, so they must have done something right at first. What happened that I start to dislike it now, have I changed or the game?

BC is a differnet matter. Although I didn't like the setting, the nerfed weapons and the chaos theme, I gave it a try to check out the new rules but right from the start I knew I would never buy any supplements for it so it was a fair deal. Not so with DW, but after some semi-novel-writers started to get their fingers into it everything went down from a a good game to an overpriced novel collection!

Well first up let me thank you guys for keeping this civil. I have just popped on before bed to let you know I've skimmed what you have posted since my last post and I am still intending to put up a thread to collate these perceptions tomorrow (still 11:57PM according to my PC here at the time of writing), and with any luck I am hoping to have that up by around 6PM (Sydney time) at the latest if possible.

Zap, if possible could you find the pages that lead you to your viewpoint? No need to post them here if you don't want, but that is exactly the sort of thing I want to know. Since if there was stuff in the core book that potentially mislead you (intentionally or otherwise) thats the sort of thing I want to look for in future books I get to playtest. And pass to HBMC to check for in general for anything he gets to work on that I don't get to see.

Offhand I know there was background fluff for the Imperium at large and the Deathwatch's role in it put into the book, but my understanding is that it was put in for context purposes only. And that the sandbox game itself was set in was the Jericho Reach. At least this is how I read it, and the impression I got. But as we are a race of a few billion individuals obviously mileage is going to vary. So just by knowing how you were able arrive at this conclusion and I wasn't will go a long way to helping me, and hopefully others, avoid such confusion in the future.

I can see where you are coming from with the title, but I personally think this is a bit of a grey area. Can't has the points out tonight since I need some sleep bad, but I'll see if I can articulate something approaching a coherent train of thought on it tomorrow. This may be something that can be avoided in the future with just a tiny blurb title under the title proper. Like lets say we could turn back time (Time never turns back. It is a different time, a later time. Though there is always vengeance, in the Emperor's name.... or so I think the quote goes) to try and avoid this I would just have under the title 'A Warhammer 40K RPG set in the Jericho Reach'. Best solution in my eyes at least, but obviously we can't change it now (and I don't want to be stung for shipping on a time travel device off ebay). I'll think on this some more.

Kain, any chance you would be able to give a few examples as to where you felt the rules were something that was needed for the core game experience, but were written in a way that you felt had to be set in the Reach in order to work? I can think of one on the top of my head in regards to a trait that gave intelligence bonuses for identifying species or enemies in the Reach that one could take (Scout of the Reach or something like that in Achilus I think?), but that is a trait specifically designed around the experience the Marine has had in the Reach. So it isn't really required for core play, and can easily be adapted to any setting with just a few word changes.

I'd want these examples less to try and point out where I think the perception may be wrong, and more to try and understand how you arrived at them. Just like what I would be looking for from Zap. And if we can clear some things up now and for in the future all the better.

Once again thanks for keeping this civil guys. Doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong so long as the discussion is kept polite and focused. So lets keep it up and see if we can work some things out.

Thanks and goodnight!

Just in case (and I'll update my sig tomorrow so I don't need to do this everytime);

I don't work for FFG. These opinions expressed above are my own. I am nobody official, but I want to help. Etc. Yadda. You know the rest.

Atma01

Atma01

I really like your dispassionate approach on this matter, a talent that I don't have myself when the discussion becomes hot neither do most other here..

My concern with The Jericho Reach is mainly with the new Solo and Squad modes which are very tied to a specific Salient. I like the new approach on Solo Modes and I see them as sort of Talents which get better with Rank so the XP investement will pay out more in the future. This is an idea which should be pursued in future publications but without being tied to a specific Salient. If a SM has fought Tyranids he has fought Tyranids wether it was in the Orpheus Salient or some other part of the Universe.

Sometimes I get the feeling that it's not FFG who is trying to sell me a book but some writers who are trying to sell me their stories by offering my players new irresistible crunch - but only if I read their fluff first.

Well at the time of posting (And I just kept clicking Submit until it went through so I could go to bed), things were civil. I am thinking less so now. So can we please try and not bait or result to ad hominem here guys. Lets keep it classy (though sassy can still be fun if the intent is well meaning ).

Kain, I would have to ask you what your definition of passion is here. As I pointed out in earlier posts that I am doing this specifically because I want to give back to FFG who owe me nothing. And I am doing this so that everyone feels like they have some form of input towards the final product. If taking time out from my weekend to try and help a hobby that gives me no monetary or even name credit (in this issue management at least) benefit isn't considered passion then I can honestly say I wouldn't know what is.

If you are mistaking my attempt to keep everyone on side and away from each other's throats as being dispassionate that is your prerogative but I would like to point something out. If you don't bring this feedback to someone like me who has made it clear they were already looking to try and sort these sorts of things out, is willing to listen to you regardless of your opinion and any validity it may or may not have, and potentially has the chance to bring them up through official (play test reports) and unofficial (HBMC is a mate) channels, who are you going to bring it to?

Being passionate about something is great, but it is not an excuse for being uncivil to each other, and doesn't mean one can escape having to quantify their stance. If I can't show how you arrived at your conclusions using proof beyond personal feelings (and as a Data Analyst I could tell you some stories where this exact scenario has hurt businesses I worked for in the past), it is harder for me to convince others that not only does the issue exist and is legitimate, but to show how we can go about fixing it.

Now onto the meat of your post, and I have to ask a few questions here so I can be sure I am clear.

Do you homebrew rules or re-fluff existing ones at all in your group?

Is it a matter of you like the rules (or rule concepts) but not the fluff attached to them?

If the offending modes are/were additions to, and not in place of your existing modes how would you feel about this?

Are you opposed to the idea of Jericho or Salient specific modes being in there are all, even when designed with the intent that they represent specific knowledge and experience gain in the Reach?

In regards to the above question if there were sidebars with re-fluffing suggestions for use across the Imperium (or other Salients) and what not would that help the issue?

And thats all I can think of off the top of my head at the moment. Knowing your thoughts on the above will help me understand you better as a fan and where you are coming from. That will help me (hopefully) put myself in your mindset so I can try and read the book like you would, and see where I think the issues are and collate them for further feedback.

Of course anyone (writers included) are welcome to answer the above. Having as many viewpoints on this as possible will only help things IMO. But of course viewpoints can conflict (and wars have started over the interpretation of books before) so as always;

Please keep it civil guys, and stay classy bros.

P.S. This is for everyone and probably a decent piece of advice in general. No matter what one thinks there is always a chance they are wrong, oneself included. No one is infallible, not even the God-Emperor. So unless we are always willing to accept that we could be wrong is like saying you are better than the Emperor. And we have a little word for that I believe....... HERESY! So where possible don't work in absolutes and always couch something in the form of opinions. Because you can't argue with opinions (unless put forward as a fact) as it just amounts to nothing more than STOP LIKING THE THINGS I DON'T LIKE. Always be willing to accept that people have different views, and try to work to understand those views rather than persecute them. Things just work better that way. Or at least that is my opinion on the matter. (See what I did there? )

And my 'Unofficial Feedback Thread' (for lack of a better name at this point) is still incoming and should be up later today.

Atma01

Hi,

I read the book and as one who loves some more fluff and background knowledge must say that I realy like it.
That said, as usual it has a #@$% load of mistakes and so on.

Also one thing I hope the future developers will take into account is that they either downtune the vehicle or up the penetration of huge monster like the Hierophant.
Is it me or is the Landraider indestructable, even the Hierophant can damage it only on a 8 or 9+
The Lash Whips of which it has dozens are more lethal as its massive claws...

But otherwise...great book...

Well for better or worse I did it. The feedback thread is up.

Any chance I might be able to ask you guys to write up your thoughts on the matter and dump them in there if you get a chance?

I'm looking to try and summarise what you have put up so far into a post there and ask for feedback on the matter, but that won't happen today. Too much writing today for me so far. So many emails and message replies. Such finite time in the day. Something something something dark side. Etc. I haven't even gotten to play some Borderlands yet. +1d5 Instanity points for me.

But thanks for what has been put forth so far guys. It has certainly helped me know what to look for, and some various other mentalities to consider when I read a book that I test. And further develop more customer service skills that I can take to my real job (gotta pay the bills somehow). So at the very least you helped me on a personal level.

Thanks guys, and as always;

Stay classy bros.

Atma01