I really do not mean to complain, but the Minneapolis area in November for one thing is taking a chance on weather. Not to mention it is not easy to get to.

Is there something wrong with GenCon? GenCon in August will probably draw more players. My local guys have already said no way to Minneapolis.

It would be nice to know what conventions FFG will be attending. Registrations are already out there for Origins and GenCon. Could we have a little heads up please.

I certainly agree with you here Moses. I fail to see how having this event in Roseville makes it more accessible to international players. Surely if one was inclined to spend more than $1000 dollars(easily) to take care of travel from over seas, lodging, food, and entry fees, you would much rather do it at a venue where there are other things to do and see such as Gencon. Let’s face it, the event isn't EVER going to be convenient for foreign players because of the distances and costs involved. All moving this event to the FFG Event Center does is make it less convenient for a large number of US players to attend without adding even a little bit of convenience for our fellow gamers abroad. There were at least 4-5 guys from Indy who played in the last tournament who I doubt will travel to Minnesota for this event, and the 5 of us from Ky who were looking forward to this event all year will definitely not be attending. So this "world championship" sounds to me like it will end up as more of a "local tournament" for those with the ability to frequent the event center.

I also like to take the time to say the Fantasy Flight needs to do a better job of stating how entry into these tournaments will work. For example, last year I was under the impression that you must win a regional tournament to be invited to the world championship and thus didn't lug my big collection of models the hundreds of miles to Indy. Upon arriving and speaking to those involved in running the events (who were all fantastic people btw) I was told that anyone could enter and play. It would have been awesome to have known this ahead of time .

These are really my only complaints with FFG and how they have conducted the Dust Tactics line thus far. I hope that maybe there is still time to reverse this decision to ensure a well attended event that promotes the game the best it possibly can.

Well, with todays update I am glad to see a meaningful tourney at GenCon.

Yup, I spoke to soon. I shouldn't have been so quick to doubt when they have so far let me down so few times.

I think the idea of World Championship at their home base is logical, though slightly problematic with their location.

At GenCon, DUST will be one tournament amongst many, and its impact will be diluted. Players that play multiple games will have problems because they'd have to choose, and the overall impact would be less intense. GenCon attracts a lot of games and gamers, but that means individual games are less impressive, and that a lot of players will gravitate toward the games that are far more established than DUST on the tournament scene.

Having the tournament in Roseville, while still having a major tournament at GenCon, gives them a chance to build to perhaps a large FFG convention for the future. Choosing a time frame for the convention is problematic, because there are a lot of conventions going on. An early year convention gives them a big start for the convention season, and the chance for big tournaments at GenCon built on the World Tournaments at Roseville.

GenCon did not start as a big convention, nor did it start in the perfect location. It started because of TSR & D&D near their home offices.

It could be nice to have a FFG convention, where FFG could strut their stuff without competition from other companies.

Gimp said:

I guess you can spin it any way that you want but the bottom line is that I will be very surprised to see a big turnout in Minneapolis for Dust Tactics. Their are just too many positives for having the Worlds at GenCon.

There are positives for having it at GenCon, but there are also plenty of negatives.

At GenCon, they compete with 40K, WHFB, Warmachine, and other established miniatures games both for players and attention. That's stiff competition, both for the attention the game garners, and the players who have to choose in which games to compete.

A big tournament at GenCon is a good thing, but having their 'world championship' directly competing with more established games could be a big disappointment. That's happened to a lot of other games already.

Having the world championship at their home base means they will have established players there for a good turn out, even if the full international community isn't represented as well as it could be.

The full international community isn't really going to be that well represented at GenCon, either. There are a lot of good conventions all over the world, so GenCon simply gets to stand as one of the oldest and biggest overall. GenCon is a US convention that gets some international players, but that doesn't mean it has the best international showing.

A world championship at GenCon will simply be easier for any players that were already planning to go to GenCon for other reasons. GenCon is well over 30,000 people, but how many of them are actually coming from other countries? Of those 30,000, how many would actually be coming specifically for DUST?

Having the world championship at GenCon could spin it as more impressive because of the size of the full crowd, but the actual turn out specifically for DUST would not automatically be that much more than they can generate at Roseville.

Anything that happens at Roseville, however, is all about what FFG brings to the tables. If they want to tout a world championship, it has to be a tournament that is all about DUST, and not just the players who found that tournament at a convenient time with their overall schedule of other games. They can't do that at GenCon.

Again, you can spin this anyway that you want.

In my opinion, and that is all I am sharing here, is that having the Worlds in Minneapolis in November will not attract the best turnout of Dust Tactics players (American or International) than GenCon would in August. I know that my playgroup and others (noted in the second post in this thread) will most likely not make the trip. The reason will be that our gaming investment (budget) will be to GenCon in August not to Minneapolis in November. It's just that simple. I certainly understand your argument, but I just do not agree with you. I am looking forward to playing in the Nationals and I certainly hope there are more than one Dust Tactics event at GenCon.

In the end, I want what FFG wants. A strong community of players so that the game will continue to grow. I am just questioning their decision to have the World Championship in Minneapolis in November.

The whole idea of calling game tournaments 'national' or 'world' championships is spin to make players feel cooler for winning.

GenCon does not guarantee the best players will be there any more than Roseville's event does. GenCon will get the players that make it there, and have the time and ambition to play in the DUST events instead of other events. Roseville will get no more.

The best players in the world for DUST may actually come to Roseville, or there may well only be some that like to think they are. The same can be said for GenCon, but no more. There will be nothing to actually prove either idea as other than an excercise in pride.

That doesn't take spin, it only takes looking at the realities of the situation. Nothing is being done to guarantee highly skilled players will be coming to either event. If there are limits to the number of possible participants (as is standard at GenCon), there is less chance of the best players at the venue actually being guaranteed to participate, as it would simply limit the event to the fastest registering, with no validation of their capabilities.

National and world championships are simply fancy spin for making the players feel better, with a slightly increased chance some players will make the effort to make it to the event. Not automatically the best players making that effort, simply some players.

Without a significant and active effort to collect the best players for an event, the name will stay only a name, and 'national' or 'world' will stay only spin for players to use when they want to brag.

The last time I watched someone who bragged about how well they placed in a tournament at GenCon play, they were crushed in a local tournament for the same game by a seven year old.

Spin is spin, so let's be realistic about what's being spun.

Sure, lets be realistic.

Reality #1. The best players in the world (known or unkown) will come to GenCon long before they go to Minneapolis. I am not even close to being world class, but I am at least a decent player. I believe I will play against better players at GenCon than I would in Minneapolis. Unless FFG pays some travel expenses, local players is all who will be playing in November. My experience at the local level is that players that dominate locally find that they do not fare as well at GenCon, where they find more of a national presence. I can site many an example of this with a number of games. However, my regards to the 7 year old at your local venue.

Reality #2. I will not have the time in November (with Thanksgiving right around the corner, and X mas looming) nor be willing to make the financial investment to participate in Minneapolis even if I qualified to go. I will go to GenCon for "all" the apparent reasons and play in Nationals (unless I do not qualify). Seriously, if you have the time and financial means to choose one, would you really go to Minneapolis? If so, you probably live in Burnsville.

Reality #3. I believe that you will find that most will agree with me.

Reality #4. I can play verbal volleyball as long as you want.

Verbal volleyball is part of the fun I have on forums. Debate with intelligent people is something I enjoy, so long as the debate stays civil and intelligent. Thank you for keeping this there.

GenCon does have advantages for players looking for variety and interesting new competition in a plethora of different games. That's why I see having a big DUST event at GenCon as a very good thing.

Trying to start a FFG convention in Roseville, just as TSR did with GenCon so many years ago, is also something I see as a very good thing.

If thet can get the Roseville convention established and growing, it gives players one more interesting venue to go and play against different opponents. It also gives DUST and other FFG games a special place where they shine, rather than simply share space with other companies' games.

The biggest issue becomes the spin used for the tournaments. Neither GenCon nor Roseville should really be considered 'world' or even 'national' championships, because both are simply conventions that will bring in only those players that can make it to those conventions. Both will hopefully have a big turnout for DUST, but neither will really qualify as something to match the names they've been given, just as those titles fail for other games.

Using the titles 'world' or ' national' is spin to try and encourage players to come to their events instead of others because of the name, even if the name is actually not accurate.

Making Roseville the world championship is an attempt to encourage players to come to the new convention, while having a national championship at GenCon is trying to compete with the other mis-named national or world championship tournaments other games are having there.

The best players are not guaranteed to come to GenCon before they go to Roseville, though there is a higher probability while Roseville is being established. The best players may find Roseville easier to work into their schedule, or simply more worthwhile because they like the misnomer of it being the world championship. More gamers will be going to GenCon at the start, but there is no empirical data to show where the best players will actually decide to go. The best players may well stay home because travel is currently more expensive than it has been for wuite some time.

Roseville is more interesting for me, but that's because it would give me a chance to visit family in the area GenCon would not allow, while still allowing me to play in a major DUST tournament. That said, I'm not likely to be able to make it there, either. I don't say I'm the best player out there, but I am a player that would be more interested in Roseville over GenCon, even though both would be about the same for travel expense from where I am.

Gimp said:

Could not agree more. Having viewed FFGs promotional footage from one of the previous Gencons it was almost silly in its arrogance how they were touting the guy who won the xxx tournie as the "World Champion". How typically American....

World Championships should not be held in the same country each year because it prevents a lot of people from taking part.

If we want to name a player the World Champion then I think the only way to do that is by having tournament points and a worldwide player list that is updated with those points. Bigger tournaments give more points.
This does require FFG to push the organisation of tournaments more. (There are plenty of conventions around the world where FFG themselves could organise a Dust tournament but they don't)

I think there is only one game system that has the right idea when it comes to organised play and declaring the best players and that game is Magic: The Gathering.

Hekal Xul said:

But, I'm a typical American... Not to worry, I find Americans who take themselves too seriously rather silly. The US is big, but any individual American is no better nor worse than anyone from another country. I'm quite happy to be from the US, but fully respect the feelings of people who are quite happy to be from wherever they're from.

We stand on the shoulders of those who've established our individual countries' greatness, but that gives us no inherent value. Who I am determines my value, and not where I'm from.

World or national championships in anything should reflect that nature, but instead they become spin to make people feel more pride for winning something with a meaningless name. I find that concept very silly, but then, I've known a lot of people who are attracted to that very style of silliness because of the boost to their pride saying they won, or simply were able to compete in, a tournament with such a name.

I'd rather see 'Operation Tadpole, the GenCon 2012 Tournament,' but that wouldn't draw the attention calling it something it isn't as a 'National Champonship' would. Human nature being what it is, that would hold true most places in the world.

People from around the world can be rather foolish when pride comes into play.

In the end, I do not have a problem with having a National or World Championship. Obviously, the World Championship issue in debatable because you really have to have an international presence. This is a problem even for GenCon, but you really have a better chance of getting international players at GenCon. Seriously, if you are going to spend the money to come to the US to play in a Championship would you rather go to Minneapolis in November or GenCon in August. My point all along is that if you are going to have one at all, it should not be in Minneapolis in November.

As far as the chest thumping issue. Winning a tourney anywhere has a certain degree of luck when there are dice involved. If you win a tourney, count your blessings. Enjoy the moment and move on. Always try to improve your strategy and skill. The Magic guys have a different issue all together because there is some serious money on the line. Dust Tactics is nowhere near that nor will it ever be.

You may agree with me or not. Its OK ether way.