Hi all,

My question is about how spells like, Igneous Weapon (p.144) and Enchant (p.165) may work with characters using martial arts. These weapons secify weapons but would the Tao or any martial artists be able to consider their fists as weapons?

also, with the spell Increase Weapon (p.144) what do they mean by "must be cast before rolling any dice?' Does that mean at the start of the combat round? Before the character rolls his attack roll, or after the attack is confirmed and you arre checking the critical?

Thanks for the help.

bugmenot2 said:

I would say, that Fists are not weapons, but this is only IMO.

bugmenot2 said:

There I would say, it must be cast before rolling the attack and defense roll, because: If the wizard would see, that the attack wouldn't make a crit, he wouldn't cast it.

So long,

i would personally allow igneous weapon to effect a characters fists, but only if they had at least one martial art. but i can see why some GMs would disallow fists. test it out and see which seems more balanced for you.

I agee with you there, I think the way the rules are written it would prevent the spells from functioning on fists. Would you consider it reasonable for some one with a martial arts combat module to count their fists as weapons? I think the book says they are like taking a a weapon module (empty hand), which kind of implies that in that case fists would be treated as weapons. Do you think it would affect balance negatively? For example if a tao spent some DP on aquiring magic capability to enchant his fists?

For the second bit, is there any definitive ruling in the book on this or is it GM judgement call? Aren't passive actions able to be used at any time. Thus allowing them to be declared after the attack/defense roll but before the crit roll. The way it's written technically the spell can't be used after character generation, lol and given it's high zeon cost it seems resonable that it could be used in the above way. Any thoughts?

Thanks fo your thoughts Brewmaster. Didn't see your post before I made the above one which was directed moe at F3nr1s.

bugmenot2 said:

Like I said, I wouldn't allow it, has a GM, but this is only "IMO". Also, I would recommend to every Tao, to use Ki and not to use magic, because magic is costly for every "not-mystical"-Archetype.

But you can argue with "Unarmed is written on the 'common weapons' table on page 69, therefore it is a weaopn" (I would allow "Enchant", but only because I think, it can be cast an the warriors body). But I wouldn't allow it (but I'm not your GM ;-)).

bugmenot2 said:

The description of the spell effect ist:
"This spell adds a +20 bonus when calculationg Critical Levels for a specific attack. This spell must be cast before rolling any dice."

The important parts are "for a specific attack" and "before rolling any dice". An attack has "attack" and "defense rolls". I use this spell for a specific attack, but before any roll of this attack is made. Therefore it is definitive ruling.
If the spell weren't passiv, it would be a different problem: I must use two active action to use it: First to cast it, second (with a -25 penalty) to make my attack (and this is the reason, why it is passiv).

I also think, it would be rather broken otherwise. If I can decide, if I cast the spell, after I know that I have hit him _and_ have produced a crit, it has "no gambling".

So long,

On the first part, I would say Enchant seems to only work on inanimate objects from the description and examples given, so I would say it would not work on a Taoists fists. Igneous Weapon specifies weapon, on the other hand, has a simple problem of being on fire. I would allow it to be cast on the Taoist but deal 10 damage to him a round. I would assume it would do the same to the weapons but their Damage Barrier cancels it out, so if the Taoists has a Damage Barrier (or Fire Immunity I suppose) it would work, otherwise it is a risk. Is +10 base damage worth being hurt 10/round?

Of course in the Dominus Exxet there is a rule for using metal pads for increased damage/decreased speed in martial arts. This could be solved by using some simple metal pads that have +0damage/+0speed and casting it on those.

bugmenot2 said:

Yes, passive actions can be used at any time, although I think that you can't use a passive action after the dice start rolling. In example you can cast a shield to try and defend right before someone attacks you, not after you fail to dodge. However that is the reason they added the whole "this spell must be cast before rolling any dice" so that you have to cast it before any dice are rolled for that attack.

So I agree with F3nr1s.

As for topic #1, I'll skip it as most of the replies have said everything I would. Plus yes, even tao are hurt if their hands are on fire.

However as for topic #2. It seems pretty obvious to me why casting the spell before the critical role is incorrect. Think of attacking as one action. In real combat you don't hit the enemy, go "Oh yeah! I hit!", then proceed to actually hurt them. Its all one swift motion. Once the action is committed, unless a power specifically says so, nothing should be able to used until the action is resolved. This is the case in almost all RPGs, as the abilities that can interrupt an action usually state this specifically in the description. This, of course, is backed up by the fact that it states "Before any dice are rolled. This includes the attack dice.

My two copper.

If you go in the equipment section of the core book , you can read in Unarmed description that it is not a weapon