Right so last night my group really came together, had a proper brain storming session about the on going adventure while they were driving back from the Ashleen camp.

They got to the cathedral to find the ritual in full swing.

According to the book there are 2 ways listed to destroy the crow father.(i'm not listing them incase this is seen by the wrong people) BUT it doesn't mention what happens if the characters manage to completely obliterate the body of Abbot Skae, leaving the daemon host-less.

Does it get sucked back into the warp? Does it suddenly possess the body of Aristarchus?

The group has done well and are saying all the right things to the seer but the dice rolling sucks and at best they only have a 20% chance of snapping the seer out of it and getting his atttention.

I'd hate to see the group killed because of some crap dice results just when they start to pull together and work as a team and roleplay properly.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

thank you

You could always make the player's think one (or more) of them has been possessed. Slip them notes or have them make rolls. Make the occassional roll and shake your head and tsk them. Have their inquisitor give them instructions and tell them that they are not allowed to tell anyone else.

Paranoia is a good thing. Then anything that happens is not your fault, it will either be the other player's or the will of the Dark Gods.

If the PC's are smart, they will eventually figure it out. Until then, enjoy. (Note: this works best if you can keep the player's guessing as to which one is "possessed".)

I am about to run Illumation myself, and I can see this being a problem. But dont punish them for destroying Abbot Skae. This opens up a whole new problem, the Seer. Did he die when Skae was obliterated? If not, have him scold the PC's for stopping the reincarnation of his ancestor the saint. Then have them make the choice to execute him, take him prisoner, or whatnot. I wouldnt award EVERYONE a fate point if everyone had a hand in killing him.

Use your imagination mate.

I'd say managing to brute force the Skae-thing down would result in the same result as taking it's eyes would have. Both lead to the destruction of the host body, the banishing of the Dancer back to the Warp and the interruption of the ritual. That last bit immolating poor Aristarchus.

Agreed, if they somehow kill it without doing the eyes or speech then then more power to them.

However, I would point out that there are multiple options, and fate points exist to up the odds when it is important. Hell, if they play it well enough but blow the roll every chance, let them burn a point (that is the awarded back as the reward for being the one to end it) to succeed anyway (as that's normally the only way everyone is going ot make it anyway). If they do burn, let the player know that it felt like the Daemon took something of the character with him when he left...

I might be wrong, but as far as I remember THE ONE METHOD GIVEN IN THE BOOK WHICH I CANNOT GIVE HEAR DUE TO SPOILER is the only way of hurting/damaging the Skae-Thing.

So, if they do not do it they will not be able to "obliterate the body".

VarniusEisen said:

I had the same problem. So, I let the floating Psyker PC roll every round he was talking to Aristarchus (secretly modified by what he was saying) until getting Aristarchus full attention (took a couple of rounds with the Skae-Thing (literally) at his heels). Our Psykers speech was really good and as I always say:

RP > dices

Apart from that, I would handle it like Snidesworth mentioned regarding the killing of Skae.

It's not the only way to hurt the thing as I recall, but as a daemonhost the conventional methods are less than likely to accomplish anything without some clever ideas or a lot of luck. So I think the players *could* kill it without any special tricks, it's just that they are far far more likely to be ripped apart an eaten than do any damage.

Gregorius21778 said:

Nah, it only says that the way you're thinking of is only the easiest way. Depending on the group make up and their ranks, it is possible to kill the Skae-Thing the old fashioned way

Precisely. Lasbolts, bullets and swordblades will work - it just will be an even greater risk for the characters...

When I ran the encounter my group completely missed the eye references before the fight began. Personally I found the situation more than a little unfair there is only one direct way for the players to get the major clue and if they don't the scenario reads like an execusion for what should be a brand new group of players. When the fight sequence began I made sure to emphasize the demons recovery from any damage done contrasting its reaction covering its face while ignoring anything else. A lucky shot by one of the players hits the demon in the face and while the damage does heal a little bit of shrapnel hitting the eye leaves it bloodshot and red.

With Neon signs like that my players were able to work out what the needed to do and win the day.

Your players didnt pick up the eye clue? Wow, I havnt even started part four and two of my players caught on the eye clue.

-Crazy guy in the ally.

-The eyeless birds

- The dead guy in the desert

- The Corrupted Hexlid without eyes.

They know somethings up with the eyes, just dont know what it means. But if they're smart and talk to Raine then they will know exactly what to do.

When i ran the senario for some rookies gamers under timepressure i basicly skipped by "accident" those clues and yet the techpriest still figured it when i described the skae-thing, after all it was the eyes i of course did the most of describing since its what your going to notice the most. And i had not prepared the senario:P.

I went about this issue in a slightly different way. I ran the senario as an introduction assignment for a one on one adventure (took a bit of tweeking and some npc handling on my part, but actually moved along very well RP wise).

The PC is a psyker with a haterd of Deamons (how ironic hm?). He charged the Skae-thing his first round and rolled a rightious fury on the first swing of his blade. Imagine his surprise when the Skae-thing, after being cleaved from collarbone to hip, stepped down the remaining length of his sword to headbutt him back down the asle and into the remaining party npc's.

At this point I pulled out the GM 'tweak' card, noting that the Skae-thing's flesh seemed to knit back together around the wound. Luck had it though with one of the npc's tossing a glancing lasbolt shot to the head and the Skae-thing squealing in pain and anger... the proverbial 'lightbulb' suddenly came on allowing him to finish off the encounter with most of his body intact. If he hadn't gotten the point I was considering having a flock of the shale crows burst through the doors behind the party, carrying the torn out eyesballs of the dead from outside.

On 'introduction' adventures I find it often useful to include an npc that can call attention to key elements if need be.

From a very particular rules standpoint, if they manage to completely obliterate the skae thing, then the daemon should be banished.

From an RP point, I think it be cool if as you obliterate the skae-thing, that the daemon did manifest itself (weakly very weakly) and to completely banish it, a smart character will start to recite Liteny, or if you have a Priest or a Sister of Battle, have them actually exorcise the **** thing. Crank it up into a Roleplaying opportunity, don't leave it strictly to "Okay you did 2000 HPs to it, its dead", but have them Roleplay its banishing, heighten the tension as this faint daemon thing begins to rise from the now dead body, have them roll fear, and then force them to come up with some roleplaying solution, and not combat solution to banish it back.

I was wondering if I could tag onto this thread my request for help.

My players are going through this and they are mid rank 3. The group is large (5-7 players normally for a session) and experienced roleplayers. [Two Guardsmen, Arbitrator & Gunslinger are the main "hitters"]

I'm worried that they have enough skills/talents and equipment to just take down the Skae-Thing with raw firepower. What I'd like to do is to boost the creature to make ensure they pick one of the "better" methods to kill it off.

Firstly I was going to have it use the Hard Target talent and keep it in melee with a player at all times. Next I was going to either give it some natural armour or increase it's regeneration or increase it's wounds.

What would people advise? I want my players to get the impression that they can wound it, but will take a long time for them to eventually kill it. Then they will start looking for other ways to take it down (if they haven't already).

Well, if they do have the firepower, allow them to use it.

Why shouldn´t they? You do have to IG a slinger in group, so these people like shooting. Give them a moment of glory as they take down Skae-Thing by force

But if you insist on "making things harder" for the damage dealers, perhaps you should simply rule that his visions blurs and distorts so it is minus 20 to hit hin from any other distance then point blank.

They do like shooting but I do not want the climatic battle between the Skae-Thing to be a few rounds of dice rolling of them just trying to deal enough damage until it dies. It should be tense and get them afraid and angry. I want the Skae-Thing to run riot amongst them with them.

Up to this moment they have dealt with 99.9% of all combative/confrontational problems with superior fire power. This is the point I want to hammer home to them the concept of "Look there are bigger things than you in the universe. There are creatures that look at you the same way your look at ants. A bigger stick does not always win, in this case you need a smaller stick; positioned correctly."

They will get their gunfight, I'd just appreciate ways to tailor it to get the desired effect.

Baldrick said:

Uhm. I guess if you really want it, here's my idea.

Screw Aristarchus. Just put him as dead.

The guys get into the chapel, to find that Skae has become a (weaker than normal) daemonhost (or some other more powerful entity) and that gunfire will work, just not that well at all while he rips them to shreds. Still have the weakness for sure though, if they decided to solve that puzzle.

Then again, that's just me thinking out loud, it probably isn't very refined.

I need sleep.

Fideru said:

Where in the world are you if you need sleep at this time? Or are you working on a messed up bodyclock?

I want to leave Aristarchus there to give them the none combat option out of the climax (like they are going take it, but you never know..). If they do go for Aristarchus they will have to keep the Skae-Thing occupied for several rounds whilst they "talk him down".

I had this very issue when I ran it for a rank 3 group. Even after I improved the Skae-Thing the group very nearly took it apart with raw firepower. Hard Target is something you should aim to use as often as possible. Consider giving it Dodge +10 and Step Aside as well and making it immune to Toxic and Accurate bonus damage. Functional anatomy isn't something that daemonhosts have to worry about, even lesser ones like the Skae-Thing.

Well, how about beefing the Skae-Thing up with some minor psychic powers?

Making him the equivalent of "Psi II" should not hurt. If you give him the "Weapon Jinx", an "Always on/no upkeep needed" form of "Weaken the Veil" and "Distort Vision" should help to keep the player from shooting at you.

First round, SkaeThing uses "Distort Vision" (the pc will open up fire on a phantasma") and move into a comforable position.
2nd; Ska Thing uses "Weapon Jinx" to jam as many weapons as possible.
3rd; Distort Vision again to get into a good position for attacking

This SHOULD annoy the gun wielders. People tend to be pretty frustrated if they hit thin air.

EDIT: Take not of the errate for Weapon Jinx. ALL weapons in range will JAM! So, you just need to pull this off ONE TIME and then watch the pc clearing there guns

That is really good Gregorius!

Weapon Jinx however only effects a single weapon?

“You reach into a nearby weapon with your mind to disrupt its function. Any one weapon within range that is not in the primitive weapon category instantly jams.” From the errata...

However I still like those tweaks. The Crow Father already is hard to hit, he has Hard Target.

I'm also wanting to give the Crow Father an opportunity to do his "evil genius for a better tomorrow" speech and Distort Vision would be perfect for him to do that...

Baldrick said:

..arr but with every 5 points of Overbleed you can effect an additional weapon... nasty (still)

I remember when I played the module the first time (as a player). Instead of trying to reason with Ari who seemed to us beyond salvation, and trying to surive against the Skae-thing. Our accuracy wasn't that good, so attacking the eyes didn't really appeal to us, so instead my character chopped at him with my trusted mono-greatweapon, and destroyed him barely.

Instead of being rewarded we were told we didn't get the fate point because we didn't finish it the "right" scripted way

So when I DMed it I gave the PCs a good chance to figure out the riddle, and made them try repeatedly both to try to persuade Ari AND even attack the eyes of the Skae-thing. This way the entire party helped and achieved things. In the end the Scum managed to destroy an eye with a looted cleaver , hereafter known as the "demon-choppa"

I gave the lot a fate point. Then again the demon will return stronger than before, and only the demon-choppa will be able to seriously harm it