It seems that the Ultramarines in M41 have this habit of accusing each other of heresy. At the end of the story our Ultramarine Hero (much like Uriel Ventris) is accused of heresy by one of his battle brothers. Often because of the same thing: Not adhering to the Codex Astartes. I could imagine that an Ultramarine that joins Deathwatch is either: Not going to take the Adeptus Astartes too seroiusly, or is going to be in constant conflict with the other chapters. Think about a Spacewolf having to listen to the Codex bla, bla

I recommend the game though, its fully grim & dark, the way a desperate battle on a forge world should be. The orcs are classic too.

Since the Ultramarine hold the codex in such high regard I am myself not very suprised that they look down on those who do not adhere to the codex. After all by refusing the codex the Ultramarine is refusing the wisdom of the Primarch and hinting that the he knows better than the Primarch and that the Ultramarine Legion/Chapter has been built on a flawed basis and that's not something that I think the Chapter will allow to stand.

I think the main mistake is that most people assume the Codex is four page tactical primer that lays out one solution per problem, and not a million page tactical and strategtic masterpiece written it a odd biblical style that needs to be narratively interpretted and not just read as if its a manual. Those that dont understand the codex, literally dont understand it as "and lo, you must descend upon them with wings of fire, and wrath in your heart, and let you burning gaze wash over the foul xenos" means jump pack assault with a squad armed with flamers and thats one of the easist passages.

I see the Ultramarines as being the fundmentalist, meaing that they are always studying the Codex much like the Bible. They would be insulted to see other chapters not following it to the letter and it would make perfect sense that a battle brother would rat out another because the codex commands it. I also assume that a digital copy is built into their suits so they can call up the text in their helmet read out. I don't have any canon to support that but it seems logical.

On the subject of Captain Titus, there was an amusing review of the game in "Edge" Magazine which described Titus as resembling an "aristocratic simian." I like that phrase...

Pallomides said:

Hmm, you seemed to have played a different Space Marine game than I did.

In my game, the new Ultramarine indeed questioned Captain Titus´ unorthodox moves but that was similar to a newly minted Lieutenant trying to reconcile his dogmatic training with real life.

The heresy claim was due to Captain Titus handling a warp device unshielded. While there were no visible repercussions, Titus might well have been contaminated with taint and a true Space Marine would need more than just Titus´ word that nothing had happened.

So IMO it had nothing to do with Codex heresy and dogmatic conflict.

ranoncles said:

Yeah, Leandros pretty much took the right course of action. Should Titus have been tainted he should be near anyone else in the chapter, lest the taint spread.

My Problem with Leandros was that he went to the Inquisition & not to a Librerian of the Ultramarines. That something schould have been mentioned about Titus`s warp contact is ok. But the matter should have been handeled internaly by the Ultramarines.

Pallomides said:

I agree....

I also supppose that such things must be discussed internally with the chapter master, the librarians and the chaplain....

and I suppose that titus never surrend to an inquisitor...

but i think this is much more a space wolf style....

I agree with the logic that matters within a chapter should be reported within a chapter.

How do you guys think Ultramarines would view the actions of Leandros in the aftermath? It is one thing to adhere to the codex but the point is not the interpretation of the codex but the possible corruption of Captain Titus. It seems out of character for a ultramarine to do so.

If I would be a senior Ultramarine Librerian I would be pissed off and I would find out where Titus is. I would also kindly request that Cpt Titus be handed over to the Chapter. As far as Leandros goes: I would give him a good talking to as far as Battle brother loyalty goes. Fine and good to report wierdness but first wthin your order. After all that they went thru? !!!&%çing Leandros

Based on when the Codex was written, the Inquisition and monitoring of Warp corruption might be noticably absent, IRC they would only have been allowed to field Psykers for a short while and the Inquisition might not have been written by that point.

Also, we don't actually know if there are any UM Psykers in the vacinity and in such circumstances the general Ultra standing might well be to turn to other Imperial organisations.

Maybe Leandros was being jobsworth ******, so he'll go far in the Ultra Marines.

Face Eater said:

A whiny little prick with a bug up his ass, a chip on his shoulder, and a completely unsupported feeling of total superiority over everyone around him. Yep, that sounds like most of the Utramarines I've ever known about.

This thread makes me think that the Ultramarines still need to be fixed.

Alex

Deepstriker said:

I believe he would have been greeted with open arms by the chapter, congratulated on his successful mission, given all due battle honours for his role in the reclaiming of the Forge World... and then never promoted or raised from the ranks of Astartes in his entire life.

He did everything right. If a Librarian was available, then he should have absolutely gone to one of the Librarium to report the ortential for taint in Captain Titus. Since all he had access to was the Inquisition, he went to them, which was the technical correct choice.

What Leandros failed to do though was react, adapt and interpret the Codex in the correct fashion. He was far too dogmatic and stiff in his reading of the codex and will never be able to lead until he learns how to use the Codex to get the results needed, rather than just follow it step by step. The greatest Ultramarines commanders use the Codex in addition to their own traning, experience and instinct to form the perfect battle strategy. Anyone who uses it like a Choose Your Own Adventure book ("To fight the Ork Warboss, turn to page 97. To retreat from battle, turn to page 67") fails to get the most out of it and is only suitable for taking orders from those that do.

YMMV, of course.

Cpt Titus from Space Marine... how such idiot could become captain of legendary 2nd Ultramarnes company is my first question... (well after reading some new fluff about cato sicarius and his "personality" im not surprised)

Also Leoandros was jerk, but in very sad right way. Imagine what could happend if Titus was possesed and poor Leoandros was having some nasty accident on his way to their homesystem. Also on that mission titus ragtag brigade didnt have librarian support, on this warzone only inquisition was having means to test and check Titus for corruption, and corrupted Ultramarine Captain can cause damage on greatscale, both to his chapter honour as for imperium structure. And some of us can remember movie that didnt existed at all, movie that wasnt about some Ultramarines possesed captain, and what damage that possessed captain, that never existed, have done till his plot armour was off.

But why would a possessed Captain stop a Chaos incursion and kill a chaos Prince?

TempestSatori said:

One word: Tzeentch

Leandros was still a *****. Sidonis should have strangled him to death, for being a *****.

Wouldn't the Ultramarines movie...

<SPOILERS>

...have ended earlier and with less Marine casualties if the Inquisition had been around to check them out prior to going back to Macragge?

Nah, the big I would probably have smoked them all as soon as they figured out there was daemonic buggery afoot.

Exactly, with the Inquisition around there most likely would have been more Space Marine casualties.

TempestSatori said:

You make a couple of extra smoked smurfs sound like a bad thing.

That's some pretty heretical talk.

Gaire said:

Me, heretic? That's crazy talk.