I have picked up the Badab book one and I want to run a campaign set in the sector, but I don’t feel that deathwatch / Grey knights fit the setting so I was wonder if I could get some advice on how to make non-death watch SM’s. Would I just cut out all the DW talents/skills at character creation? I also want to use the Rites of battle book to make the chapters in the Badab book any advice on that would greatly helpful.

That's pretty much all there is to it, remove Deathwatch Training, Forbidden Lore (Xenos) and Common Lore (Deathwatch), don't allow access to any Deathwatch specific relics and gear (or just rename the gear to be regular stuff), remove the Deathwatch advance tables, and perhaps allow the ability to get more than 1 Chapter Trapping (as, as far as I've read somewhere, the 1 trapping restriction is due to Deathwatch rules)

And yeah, use Rites of Battle to make the chapters from the Badab War, but note that many of the chapters in it don't have a known founding chapter, which means a bit more effort on your part for some of the things custom chapters take directly from their founding chapter.

flyboy0106 said:

This is something I've been contemplating for a long time, so I do have a few thoughts...

The setting (or using non-Deathwatch Marines)

Deathwatch makes for a good RPG setting because it gives a logical rationale for marines from various chapters to work together in small squads. Although the Badab war campaign involves many different chapters, it's clear that these chapters tended to operate pretty much independently of each other during the course of the conflict. There weren't that many combined arms actions involving marines from different chapters working together...and where this did take place, such as during the final invasion of Badab, the various chapters were working on a grand scale, with most sending at least two companies.

One could, of course, work hard and come up with a rationale for small groups of marines to work together as a non-Deathwatch force within the setting, but I personally think that it would be a bit of a stretch, and would look pretty unconvincing and contrived.

The alternative: a Deathwatch campaign within the Badab War setting

So this leads me on to my alternative suggestion: having the PCs work as a Deathwatch unit within the Badab war setting, during the timeframe from about 748 M41 to the end of the Badab War.

The Badab War books clearly anticipate using the Maelstrom Zone as a resource for Deathwatch. There are little hints sprinkled within the books that the Deathwatch are secretly active in the region: this isn't really surprising, as they were written by Alan Bligh, a key figure in 40k rpg, and the author of some of the best early DH material.

Imagine a Deathwatch campaign in which the players roleplay the interaction between members of chapters later involved in the war. These marines have been seconded to the Deathwatch, and are sworn to its service. Now imagine that, say, a PC marine of the Mantis Warriors chapter and a PC marine of the Raptors chapter forge bonds of respect and friendship during the period from the early Badab Schism (when Lufgt Huron stopped paying the Tithe) all the way to the destruction of the Palace of Thorns. It strikes me that the conflict is a fantastic historical backdrop where good roleplaying can create immensly rewarding campaigns that involve complex interaction between friends who could also be enemies.

Foreshadowing would be a useful device here: Astal Claws PCs seconded to the Deathwatch could be either hubristic and arrogant or well-intentioned and noble, depending upon your interpretation of the background. Lamenters Marines could be tragic and flawed. Minotaurs and Fire Hawks marines could be combative and unpleasant...and so on. Foreshadowing is used heavily in the Horus Heresy series of novels (in my view a little overused) but it could be a fun device for players knowledgable of the Badab War to employ.

Many of the existing DW adventures set in and around the Jericho Reach could be adapted to the Maelstrom zone. You'd have to lose the Tyranid and Tau stuff, but the rest is good to go.

You could end your campaign with your players choosing sides in the Badab War conflict, or perhaps choosing to remain true to the Apollyon Oath and continue serving the Imperium despite the actions of their compatriots.

Badab War Chapters

So rather (as you suggest) creating non DW marines, I would suggest adapting the existing rules system to create DW marines from chapters portrayed in the Badab War books.

There are two ways to do this: the easy way and the hard way.

The easy way is to adapt the rules set out in "Rites of Battle" for successor chapters to those chapters who fought in the Badab War. In my view, many of the chapters who fought in the war stayed fairly true to the archetypes and concepts of their parent Legions, so little adaptation of the current ruleset is required. Have a look at pages 52 to 68 of the "Rites of Battle" book for examples of the small amounts of adaptation required. For the sake of 300-500 words of background and a small rules modification to enhance the flavour of your successor chapter, you have a complete set of rules for a Deathwatch character from chapter that took part in the Badab War. Look at pages 55 and 63, which contain rules for playing the Novamarines and Lamenters respectively.

I think the "short form" adaptation could probably be applied to the following Badab War conflict chapters:

Marines Errant
Raptors
Fire Angels
Howling Griffins
Executioners
Sons of Medusa
Mantis warriors

The Hard way would be to write completely detailed chapter rules as one sees for the First Founding Chapters. If one wants to follow the DW format, this would require writing about 1,000 words of background, a "Pasts" table, a "Primarch's curse" (in this case more like a Chapter curse), a solo mode ability, a unique advances table, Squad mode abilities, psychic powers, and chapter trappings. That's a lot of work. Having done it once (I wrote up a version of the Marines Malevolent) it's at least one full night's work, possibly two. (And bear in mind I screwed up the background in my version!)

I think that there are a small number of Badab War chapters that deserve this treatment, though, chapters who are so divergent from their progenitors that they require a far greater level of personalisation than the "easy way" requires. These include:

The Minotaurs
The Carcharadons
The Executioners
The Astral Claws

Then there are those chapters that hover on the borderline: they are significantly different to their founders, but perhaps not so different as to require full chapter rules. You could legitimately use either the easy or hard approach for these guys:

Fire Hawks
Red Scorpions
Star Phantoms
Anyway, there's a few thoughts, hope that helps!

Thank You!! , once I saw the badab book, I knew I was going to run a RPG in it. now I'm convenced to use DW. I told my players about it last night and they are totally cool with the novamarines as their chapter, and they are going to be acting as a combat squad. I read in volume one that the nova marines tattoo them selfs to ward off evil, so I was thinking im going to use that as a trait and maybe the marines would get a +10 buff against the warp, what do you think?

flyboy0106 said:

Sounds interesting - you could balance it with a mechanism whereby the Novamarine PC doesn't work so well with marines from non-codex chapters: those guys are notoriously hardline on codex issues!

If you haven't got the DW Rites of Battle book, though, check it out - they do already have fully approved rules for Novamarines and Lamenters.

I know I keep saying it, but if I get a chance, I'll try and write up some DW rules for some of the other Badab chapters. Finding the time is difficult at the moment, though 'cos I've got a new baby who seems to object ( ) to me spending time writing DW fan material!

I have been in the process of making my own rules for the Mantis Warriors, giving specific differences for before and after the Badab War.

https:// docs.google.com/document/d/1OQVYVp5IhmXw9Rx4nvDn5HZ6jWBw43EH9PiPbnug_gE/edit

ochs said:

VERY good stuff, Ochs!

Congradulations for your new family member!!

I do have the rites of battle book and I must have skipped the novamarines! that's great news I can't what to get home to look it up. so here is a very rough draft I going to start the campaign with.

The PC’s are sent to investigate why Vyaniah has lost contact with the Trade Lords of Karthargo. During their decent from orbit, they are hailed by the Astral Claws to turn back or be fired upon, the crews responds with all proper indent codes but are met with planetary fire and their ship is shot down. All the crew are lost during the crash and several SM’s are wounded or killed. The emergency beacon is destroyed and the PC’s must find their way to sent for help and find out why they were fired upon. Following the Codex Astartes SERE operations go into effect and the PC’s must find a way to warn the Imperial authorities that the Astral Claws have turn traitor. In doing so they must gather evidence to make such accusations. If they fail they in getting the message off in time the Red Harbinger will be destroyed. When the PC’s gather themselves and try to contact their ship they find that there is no response.

Ochs I like the write up, but I'd remove Swift Attack and Marksman because Swift Attack changes the dynamics of a lot of Specialties a lot earlier than I think prudent, and Marksman is relatively high level too, since Tac Marines get it at Rank 3 and Devastators get it at Rank 4. Maybe Sure Strike and Deadeye Shot would be a little more appropriate. Though honestly I think I would trim down the Talents a bit, they seem to get a lot of them, and some of them are considerably better (given bonuses that won't also probably get you killed and are less conditional) than what a lot of the other Chapters get.

Also I think you should still include Renown level Respected to get a Stalker Pattern Bolter.

With Tranquility Pattern I'd drop that bonus to +3 and only give it to full Aim actions or to a specific enemy to be more in line with established power levels (like the example of what the Imperial Fists get).

With Prophetic Sigil I'd give that bonus to Awareness not Perception.

But that's just my opinion, and sometimes I'm told I am too much of a stickler for game balance and the rules, so do with that what you will.

Good job though.

flyboy0106 said:

Sounds like it should be fun! Just one thing to note if you want to have 'getting a message out' as a major story element: the astro-telepathy power. One to bear in mind if any of your players wants to go with a librarian.

Yeah, I realized that so what will happen is once they get to the City they are going to find some of there crew from the cruizer being held prisoner and one of the crew is an Astropath. So they will have to escort her to the hall of echos to send the message. unfortunately, they hall doesn't have the range to make to the fleet, but they do reach a patrol of fire hawks that are willing to come and rescue them. Then they will have take out the air defenses so the fire hawks have a chance to land.

The Second mission: will be recapturing the red harbinger from the Mantis's. this going to take place after the prisoner transfur. still kicking around some ideals. but what I do know is that my Novamarines are going to be working with fire hawks for a while.

Now forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't Cohesion a measure of how well marines from disparate chapters are willing to work together? If this is a case, wouldn't a squad of maries of the same chapter get either vast amounts or unlimited Cohesion? Just a thought, carry on.

I believe it is, but if that's the case then I'll just use the rule as descibed and give then a set amount as if they were DW. Or give them a bonus for being from the same chapter.

You can have squads in Deathwatch from the same chapter and no special rules have been stated there. I'd just use the cohesion rules as is. The increased bond is easily represented by no problems with the entire squad using chapter squad abilities.