I looked through the forum, but I couln't find an appropriate answer.

In our party, we are about to switch career. So, we have a couple of questions.

I'm an Initiate.

I acquiried Piety, Invocation and Education at character creation.

I can train 3 skills, 1 mandatory and 2 optional. So I choose Piety, Invocation and Education.

I'll have one specialization for each with the dedication bonus.

1. Knowing that I already trained 3 skills, can I train another career skill in the non-career advances?

1.b Does it cost 1 or 2 advances?

2. Knowing that I already trained 3 skills, can I train a non-career skill in the non-career advances?

3. Do I get a specialisation for the career or the non-career skill?

Kenricus said:

1. Yes. Costs just as much as out-of-career skills (2 advances for basic skills, 4 advances for advanced skills).

2. Yes.

3. No for the non-career skill. The text is vague when it comes to a career skill trained out-of-career. I would rule no, but that's my interpretation of the rules.

Doc, the Weasel said:

What about skills learned at character creation? do they get specialization?

TY

Kenricus said:

No. It's one reason to consider not buying skills at character creation (although then you wont be as good at your 'job' as others in your career, swings and roundabouts)

Page 46 of the Players' Guide

Note that for characters completing their first career, any skills
trained during character creation through the investment of creation
points or due to special racial abilities do not count as trained
during the course of their first career.

And just to add to what has already been said, Skills trained after you have spent all of your allotted 'skill advances' are considered Out Of Career advances, whether they are skills allowed by your career or not. This means they will be increased cost and not get the bonus specialisation when you buy the dedication bonus.

From FFGs FAQ document

Once all ten advances have been crossed off on the General Career
Advances, the career has nothing else to offer the character – any
further development he wishes to pursue while in that career would
be considered a non-career advance... it may be time to look for a
new career that offers new opportunities for self-improvement.

Matchstickman said:

People always bring this up, but they seem to forget the free specializations that you get at character creation that offset this. The difference is that you get the specialization when you start rather than when you end.

No matter how you slice it, every character ends up with either one or two skills that don't get a free spec.

Kenricus said:

To answer 1. In the Player's Guide you can read " Non-Career Advances :
Characters have the option to acquire skills and abilities outside
their current career by spending additional advances. However,
spending advances on skills and abilities not listed on the career
card do not count as advances spent toward completing the character’s
current career."

Therefore I will say NO to 1 and 1b.

To answer 2: Yes

To answer 3: No

Doc, can you point out from where you interpret or where have you read that you can train career skills in the non-career advances? Tahnks

Forget my other post, I have checked the FAQ. Doc is right

Here's where I got my answer on #3:

Player's Guide, pg. 46

"Purchasing a career’s dedication bonus has several benefits … the character learns a free specialisation for each of that career’s key skills he trained during his time in that career."

Emphasis mine. I think that it only refers to the ones trained in career only, but I could see someone making an argument that it applies to all Career Skills, including those trained out-of-career. It's a weak argument, but there it is. It also creates some issues if you play it that way (like do you get the bonus if you get a career skill while in the career, but after the dedication bonus?)

Doc, the Weasel said:

For my money you emphasised the wrong part of the sentence

Player's Guide, pg. 46

"Purchasing a career’s dedication bonus has several benefits … the character learns a free specialisation for each of that career’s key skills he trained during his time in that career ."

If you buy things Out of Career I think you would be very hard pushed to argue that it was "during his time in that career"

Matchstickman said:

Following the FAQ's, what is considered a non-career advance then?

In my opinion this can only be non-listed skills and non-listed characteristics. I mean, if we also include listed skills and listed characteristics, then we have to contemplate the possibility to buy talents and actions as non-career advances, but at which price then?

Yepesnopes said:

Er... you can already buy non-career Talents (that is, talents that you could not slot into any of your talents slots on your career sheet), 2 advances as listed on page 45 of the Player's Guide (and I suspect the appropriate place in the Core rules but don't own so can't check).

As to actions... that isn't specifically listed anywhere but I would hazzard a guess that as actions are the same 'price' as (basic) skills and talents that they would cost the same amount as (basic) skills and talents, 2 each. (Also based on the +1 advance-per-rank-above-yours increased cost on spells/blessings you buy)

Matchstickman said:

Hihihihihihi

Your knowledge of the Player's Guide (or at least your memory) is by far more complete than mine!

Nonetheless, there is still the issue about action cards. In that regard your proposal (as a house rule) makes sense to me.

Cheers

Please ignore, this is just a test

Kenricus said:

I thought you couldn't learn/master skills you got during character creation (at least at rank 1). Or are advanced skills you acquired the exception?

Massaker said:

The only restriction is that you can only train a skill once per rank (including any bought at character creation)... and acquiring a skill is not the same as training it.