As I thumbed through Black Crusade last night I realized that some talents and combat are working slightly differently (Swift Attack/Lightning Attack/Charge Bonus etc.) than in Deathwatch. Is this an evolvement of the system or are the difference in the rules on purpose to support different styles of play?

I like most of the Black Crusade rules better but I am not sure whether using them would unbalance the game. Any opionions on this? Or any threads I nissed?

From what I understand, Fantasy Flight Games build upon the core mechanics used in Dark Heresy for Deathwatch. For Black Crusade, they decided to revamp the system to support a high level of play. I believe if you search in the House Rules or Gamemasters Subforums, you will find several threads making mention of this and actually incorporating it with their group to a general improvement in the game. I myself have asked my group if we want to make the switch but since they're newcomers to Deathwatch, I think I'll hold off on it until later.

I've been thinking about making the switch to Black Crusade style combat for Deathwatch. Not 100% there, but I can see a lot of the benefits.

BYE

I made the switch as soon as I was able (that is, when the book came out - I'd had plenty of time to plan for the change, but my players aren't under NDA, so I can't reveal the things I know to them until the books get released), and haven't regretted it at all - combat became significantly more mobile and dynamic instantly. I'd already been using a version of what became Zealous Hatred (I started using it as a houserule long before I started working on Black Crusade), so that wasn't a change at all.

I greatly prefer just about everything from Black Crusade. Beyond revising the combat rules (the half actions and adjustments to firing modes are great), the revision to Unnatural Characteristics would be a great thing to port over to Deathwatch without too much fuss. I'd suggest the modified Skills from BC too, but that's more work.

I am personally not totally convinced. Deathwatch was a bit unbalanced, but I felt that was more to do with what had been done with the system, rather than a problem with the system itself. Some of the changes are good, some are ok, and some I am not keen on.

Zealous Hatred I would generally consider a plus. It gives a chance for weedy things to do something to really tough PCs (as it it now applies universally, rather than just to significant characters), and it means you get to use the critical hit tables more. However, I am not 100% sure it will fit well into Deathwatch. Some of more recent enemies almost seem to rely on getting righteous fury to take down in any reasonable time (not the original enemies from the rulebook).

The new rules for lightning attack and swift attack are both a downgrade and an upgrade for melee characters. Single attacks now get a bonus (which I always forget... I am not keen on the "normal" way of doing something having a modifier), so even though Swift Attack has the same chance as it does in DW you are sacrificing something to achieve it, and Lightning attack is now at a penalty. The fact that the number of actual attacks you make is determined by two-weapon wielder rather than the original talents (and it caps out at one for each hand) means that fewer attack rolls are going at the enemy, so you are less likely to burn through their reactions (though the number of those has decreased as well).

However, the total number of possible hits has increased as it now caps out at WS bonus. One handed this is no great deal, as it is unlikely and it will likely be reduced by reactions. Two handed though the possible number of hits get quite hairy (Lightning attack twice for 10 possible hits for a WS of 50). Now, as said this is likely to be reduced due to reactions, but now reactions don't automatically counter an attack (as they cancel a hits per DoS, and now an attack can get multiple hits), so some damage is more likely to go through than in the past. Now, the penalties for lightning attack and two weapon wielding do add up, so for someone of low skill the current version is probably worse than the original. For a middle skilled person the various gains and losses probably cancel each other and they will likely end up as effective as before (fewer actual attack rolls, but as they can now score multiple hits reactions need to be better to cancel attacks completely). For someone with high skill, the best equipment and all the relevant talents (so getting rid of the two weapon penalty etc) they will probably be even more hideous than they were in the past. Yes, there are fewer dice rolls, but those attacks will be able to generate a very large number of hits, which will take very good dodge rolls to avoid all of, and as you get to the upper ends of WS and the various bonuses you can aquire -10 (or 20 if you compare to single attacks) just isn't that much. We had an Assault Marine at rank 5 with a base WS in the 60s, and with the various bonuses he could gather he was often rolling against 100+. Using the new rules the -10 would do next to nothing, and while he could only attack twice (rather than 4 times) each of those attacks could inflict 6 hits. He was already pretty much the answer to anything and I just think that the new rules would power him up further.

I am also not 100% convinced about the change to all attack being half actions. I know it is meant to add mobility to the game, but it just doesn't sit well with me. It makes suppressive fire less useful (before that limited them to standard attacks only in response), and makes some options even more useless than they had already become. Called Shot, for example. Since it became a full action I have never really seen a time that would be a good option to choose, and now it is competing against almost all attack options being half actions (this consequently makes the called shot talents more than slightly sub-par). I think that rather than make it a Full Action all of its own they should have limited it to single shot/attack.

The new rules will work fine with Black Crusade, where the various options are competing against everything else and everyone can choose them, but with the career advance schemes I don't think it will balance out well (not that it does particularly now... I am looking at you Assault Marine, but I think it just makes it worse).

I am also not so keen with the change to skills. I know why they have done it, and I can understand it, but grouping some of the skills in the way they have just doesn't appeal to me. Concealment is a different skill than moving silently which is different from shadowing someone. Yes, I know most character archetypes that want to do one will want to do all of them well, but not all (for example, a skillful big game hunter might be good at hiding himself, and probably moving quietly, but he might stick out like a sore thumb when trying to follow someone in the bustle of a hive city).