Emprah_Horus said:
I just try to add some roleplaying to my rollplaying.
Oh god, not this...
Fire Selectors... oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed.
Emprah_Horus said:
@Mystificator The rules also allow you to add Mono to a powerfist, but does that mean you should? I'm not saying the rules are foolproof, but a little common sense goes a long way. Pistols, even in the 40k universe, shouldn't have more than 2 clips. A basic class weapon I can see having 3 clips, but not on a pistol, whether the rules allow it or not. Thats just how I play though, you are correct that the rules allow it, I just try to add some roleplaying to my rollplaying.
Actually if I remember correctly adding mono to a powerfist was fixed in the errata, it must now be an edged weapon.
llsoth said:
Actually if I remember correctly adding mono to a powerfist was fixed in the errata, it must now be an edged weapon.
No, they changed it so that "mono" for non-edged weapons just represent something else, like pneumatic pistons or so.
2Emprah_Horus: No offence but I think it's a kind of the "roleplaying vs powerplaying" holywar. This is a little above the theme of this thread. It was written a lot here about what seems to be realistic for fire selectors. You asked me to show a place in the basic rules where was written that fire selectors must be equipped with three clips. I simply did it. The rules make no difference between pistols and basic weapons. So if you want to follow rules, you can be free to drive three clips even in ordinary shotgun or revolver (really I can't imagine this monster). If you want realism and roleplaying you are free to ban anything you see inappropriate in your game such as JacobKlunder did.
As for me, I think this rule is made so broad to not produce any exeptions. If you are relying on common sence you may restrict monster-like weapon, if you consider "rules over all" it probably doesn't matter how it looks and works.
2JacobKlunder: As for me I use simple "describe it" rule. If player can describe how he attach bayonet, underbarrel grenade launcher, laser sight, targeteer and exterminator to compact autopistol and it looks to be working, I'll allow it.
Offtopic: russians made a silensed underbarrel grenade launcher. It works and is used by spetznaz since 1970s. This is an example of how strange real weapons sometimes are.
JacobKlunder said:
llsoth said:
Actually if I remember correctly adding mono to a powerfist was fixed in the errata, it must now be an edged weapon.
No, they changed it so that "mono" for non-edged weapons just represent something else, like pneumatic pistons or so.
I stand corrected.
Must have been my wishful thinking and hope clouding my memory as blunt weapons with armor penetration values irk me for some reason.
@Mystificator - I am not trying to start a flame war or any fights about powergaming, but your previous posts showed that the rules themselves state that you can have up to 3 clips, nowhere does it state that a fire selector automatically has 3 clips. That is where it irks me that people automatically add the 3 clips because they can - its very much a number crunching powerplay to have 3 clips on a pistol - physically it wouldn't work on the majority of pistols, even in the 40k world.
I don't run a game, but in the game I play in I wouldn't even ask my GM for something like that just because it sounds ridiculous to me....but I guess thats just me.
llsoth said:
Must have been my wishful thinking and hope clouding my memory as blunt weapons with armor penetration values irk me for some reason.
Err, blunt weapons are often more armor-penetraty than edged weapons. Knights used maces against other armored knights.
Of course, little beats swung piercing weapons. *G*
Mystificator said:
Offtopic: russians made a silensed underbarrel grenade launcher. It works and is used by spetznaz since 1970s. This is an example of how strange real weapons sometimes are.
They also manufactured the first underwater guns, which is to say a normal ballistic firearm designed to be fully functional underwater (and above water, for that matter). Ahhh, the marvels of Soviet engineering. Then again, gyrojet bullets are a good old American innovation, so I shouldn't be dumping. lol
If anyone wants to check out how multiple clips for a revolver would work check out the first fight in No more Heros 2
If thats not an awesome factor i don't know what is.
Multiple cylinders on a revolver?
Here you go guys, enjoy the monster
http://www.thesteampunkempire.com/profiles/blogs/multicylinder-revolver
nice one on the French mega-revolver.
Emprah_Horus said:
@Mystificator - I am not trying to start a flame war or any fights about powergaming, but your previous posts showed that the rules themselves state that you can have up to 3 clips, nowhere does it state that a fire selector automatically has 3 clips. That is where it irks me that people automatically add the 3 clips because they can - its very much a number crunching powerplay to have 3 clips on a pistol - physically it wouldn't work on the majority of pistols, even in the 40k world.
I don't run a game, but in the game I play in I wouldn't even ask my GM for something like that just because it sounds ridiculous to me....but I guess thats just me.
In our games we just go by u can buy the fire selector upgrade up to 3 times for a gun and each time it adds one clip along with the extra .5 kg weight to the gun
"What really makes me crosseyed is trying to imagine an autopistol or stub automatic with 3 clips attached (must be a but unhandy), no to mention a stub revolver or hand cannon with three seperate cylinders that you can freely switch between..." as quoted by JacobKlunder
@JacobKlunder: The Hand Cannon does not have a cylinder chamber, if you look on page 132 of the DH core rule book you will see a picture next to the description of a Hand Cannon of a Hand Cannon and it does not show a cylinder chamber on it but looks to be a clip.
"How does this fire selector thingy work again?"
"I don't know but it's in the gear section".
... makes a HANDWAVE motion across the gaming table...
"Awesome'.
And that's how a fire selector works. Don't leave home without one.
LOL 
I agree with Zakalwe
Oly said:
Or perhaps you can say that the fire selector adds a mechanism for extracting a round from the chamber, perhaps to some "holding" chamber or back into the magazine.
I like that idea. Sounds doable.
Here's an image of the Brother Artemis miniature from GW's old Inquisitor RPG, by the way. It features two tiny magazines on either side of the bolter, presumably accomodating less rounds (half a dozen or so?) than the standard mag, but allowing the character to load up to four "sets" of special ammunition in discretionary combination.
Judging by the image I would say an okay interpretation for a technical explanation would be that the character pushes the respective magazine deeper into the gun, which triggers a mechanism that replaces the standard projectile with the special one, temporarily storing the former in a secondary chamber, from which it returns in the primary one as soon as the special round is fired, automatically returning to the standard loading sequence of the gun's primary magazine.
If you want to houserule it some, you could decrease the magazine capacity (but allow for a maximum of 4 small clips like in the miniature? though that would likely depend on the gun, and it might get too big for normal humans) and make it take a half action to switch.
And if you really want to pimp it out, connect a vox-operator to the weapon to get that Judge Dredd-feeling when you raise your bolt pistol and growl "Hyper-Density Penetrators" into it (the vox command making it a free action).
JacobKlunder said:
Overcharge packs and hotshot rounds?
Meh, energy is energy. 
I'd say three clips total and with quite a lot of bulk attached to the weapon in question (I'm guessing in a variety of manners such as box clips, drums and unwieldly attachments). For an ascension game, I've offered the option of having the three as one third the size of a normal clip, but having the weapon no bulkier than normal. Very handy for concealed weapons which shouldn't need tonnes of ammunition.
Oly said:
Or perhaps you can say that the fire selector adds a mechanism for extracting a round from the chamber, perhaps to some "holding" chamber or back into the magazine.
It exists already; it's called a magazine cut-off, generally found on Browning Gold/Maxus shotguns; they block the tubular magazine and allows the operator to load a single shell directly into the chamber, in case you're loaded with BB and need a slug for that bear that popped out 30 meters in front of you.
Braddoc said:
It exists already; it's called a magazine cut-off, generally found on Browning Gold/Maxus shotguns; they block the tubular magazine and allows the operator to load a single shell directly into the chamber, in case you're loaded with BB and need a slug for that bear that popped out 30 meters in front of you.
Interrupting the feed should be possible with any single-action weapon. However, this still requires the user to know he wants to use special ammunition before the gun has loaded the next projectile - whereas the fire-selector would allow switching even when a new round has already been pushed into the chamber, and is compatible with (semi-)automatic firearms. So, two different systems, but ... still somehow related.
Might be a nifty houserule for less sophisticated weapons, though - half-round action to punch in a single special shell. "The poor man's fire selector."
Lynata said:
Braddoc said:
It exists already; it's called a magazine cut-off, generally found on Browning Gold/Maxus shotguns; they block the tubular magazine and allows the operator to load a single shell directly into the chamber, in case you're loaded with BB and need a slug for that bear that popped out 30 meters in front of you.
Hah, good thing that you remind me. I knew I heard something like that before!
Interrupting the feed should be possible with any single-action weapon. However, this still requires the user to know he wants to use special ammunition before the gun has loaded the next projectile - whereas the fire-selector would allow switching even when a new round has already been pushed into the chamber, and is compatible with (semi-)automatic firearms. So, two different systems, but ... still somehow related.
Might be a nifty houserule for less sophisticated weapons, though - half-round action to punch in a single special shell. "The poor man's fire selector."
M870..Bah! BPS is the way to go when we're talking shotguns (I'm biased I know; and a lefty...bottom ejection FTW)
I know I did got a GM to allow a magazine cut-off as a fire-selector; iit looks cheap, but when you got a pump-action shotgun, sure is a blessing not having to fumble around with your buckshots trying to get that slug in.