I got KD today and I started playing "Into the Pit". So far I'm excited, but I have some questions about stage 2B, "Goblin Patrol". It's when revealed effect is:

"Each player must search the enocunter deck and discard pile for one enemy of his choice, and add it to the staging area. One choice must be Patrol Leader, if able."

1) In my last game there was no enemy in the discard pile, so I only added one enemy, the Patrol Leader, to the staging area. I guess that's how it should be played, right?

2) The Patrol Leader's forced effect says:

"Before Patrol Leader is dealt damage, disard the top card of the encounter deck. If the discarded card is an enemy, cancel that damage."

I interpret this so that a player has to make this check for every possible damage seperately. So if Thalin would attack an enemy using a Dwarrowdelf Axe and is supported by a Dwarven Axe Warrior, I have to make this check for both the dmage dealt by the attack and for the damage dealt by the Axe's effect? And I have also to make this check when Thalin's and Gandalf's ability are used? Or using "Infighting"?

leptokurt said:

i would say yes to both

leptokurt said:

You haven't found a second enemy in the encounter deck?

Shelfwear said:

do you need a 2nd? ive been reading it as search both decks for 1 enemy - giving you more choice to pick from- however it is usually patrol leader- sort of like ungoliants spawn- in solo its always that one you chose

I read it that every player must search and chose one enemy, one of them being the Patrol Leader. It is also a scaling mechanic, one enemy if you play solo, 4 enemies if you play with 4 player. How do you read it differently?

Shelfwear said:

no thats how i read it- i must have got the gist of your post wrong- so to clarify this is what i do solo-

search discard pile and encounter deck for 1 enemy- which is usually the patrol leader- unless i already have both of them out- which has never happened

leptokurt said:

1) You did this correctly. It's very similar to the Spider-searching that goes on in Passage through Mirkwood.

2) My thought is that damage gets dealt all in one chunk (excepting things like the Cave Troll's overflow), so if you've got Thalin with an Axe, you only check once. The rulebook supports this (you add up all your attack strength, subtract the enemy's defense, and splat). You'd have to check during the quest phase with Thalin's ability (as it deals damage), and you'd have to check if you ever used Gandalf to hurt him (again, dealing damage). I *don't* believe you'd have to make the check with Infighting, though - that effect doesn't "deal damage", it just moves tokens around.

radiskull said:

what about with dwarrowdelf axe- when the damage is dealt as a response action and not as added up stats

richsabre said:

Sorry, I bungled it. I was under the wrong impression that Leptokurt is playing a 2-Player game, which he wasn't. Sorry for the confusion.

richsabre said:

The response on Dwarrowdelf Axe is a distinct event and is separate from the actual attack damage. So, if you attack with an Axe-wielding Dwarf, you will trigger the Patrol Leader's forced effect when you deal attack damage AND if you choose to trigger the Axe's response (keep in mind that responses are always optional; if, for some reason, you DON'T want to discard two encounter cards, you can always choose not to activate the ability on Dwarrowdelf Axe.).

Correct...

But remember the order is encounter deck first, then discard pile.. so you always look in encounter deck, then shuffle it, then discard pile. Even if both Patrol leaders are in the discard pile, the command is still to "check" the encounter deck first.. so the upshot is that the encounter deck gets shuffled no matter what. While this is not that important in this quest, as in it helps you. For if you have randomly drawn a Patrol Leader while questing and killed it, you now only have 1 more in the encounter deck, so if you pull that out though this effect, there is no more in the deck, if you pull it form the discard, there is still one more in the deck you could draw. This is bad.

In other quests though, like say A Journey To Rhosgobel, the order of encounter deck 1st THEN discard pile is extremely relevant to the quest difficulty.

leptokurt said:

Yes, each instant of damage would trigger this effect, so Thalin Quest effect would trigger it, and 1 point of dmg from the axe would trigger it separately to the actual damage from the attack swing. So yeah your doing it right..

Shelfwear said:

'twas so dark so dark inside of the encounter deck, the dwarves couldn't even find their beer.

As we are speaking of KD: there seems to be a mistake in the German translation for the Goblin Follower. In English it reads "Goblin follower engages the last player" while in German it's "Goblin follower attacks the last player" which is why he was attacking me twice in the round he appeared.

Thanks to all who helped to clarify this. The Patrol Leader seem too be a true juggernaut, in my last game I killed him with Gandald "out of habit". Hopefully I will get used to him after some more games.

booored said:

I would like some clarification of what you mean, I'm think about the quest Passage through Mirkwood: on "A Chosen Path Don't Leave the Path!" quest card, it reads, "When Revealed: Each player must search the encounter deck and discard pile for 1 Spider card of his choice, and add it to the staging area.
The Players must find and defeat Ungoliant's Spawn to win this game."

If the Ungoliant's Spawn is in the discard pile at the moment of revealing this quest card, do you mean that I have to take a spider card from the encounter deck but not the Ungoliant's Spawn in the discard pile? Or just that I have to search and shuffle the encounter deck first before I can take the Ungoliant's Spawn in the discard pile and add it to the staging area?

Angus Lee said:

No... the quest card says at least 1 spider HAS to be the Spawn.... in a solo game this means just fetch spawn from were ever it is.. though remember you need to shuffle the encounter deck no matter what. In a 2 player game for example, you fetch a spawn from were ever it is and you can take a spider card from either the encounter discard or encounter deck The quest has the text "spider card of your choice" So if the spider you want is not in the encounter deck you can take it from the discard pile. Though it might be best to always take form the encounter deck as that is one less spider you can reveal. Either way no matter what you need to shuffle the encounter deck

EDIT - oh ... you do not HAVE to pick Spawn... though you kinda need to as you have to "find it" and "kill it" to compleat this quest. So if you do not take it fomr discard pile you need to cycle the entire encounter deck and draw it again b4 you can win.

"When Revealed: Each player must search the encounter deck and discard pile for 1 Spider card of his choice, and add it to the staging area. The Players must find and defeat Ungoliant's Spawn to win this game."

leptokurt said:

This is not a big problem. Sound threaten but if you look encounter deck for this quest for 50 up cards there is no more then 13 or 14 enemies. So chance to get enemy by discarding quite small.

I don't agree that "search the encounter deck and discard pile" means the same thing as "search the encounter deck then the discard pile". I think you can search either, or both, as you like, only shuffling the encounter deck if you search it. This could be a big deal, for example, if you have Dark Knowledged Hummerhorns to the bottom of the encounter deck - you may not want to search the encounter deck (triggering a reshuffle) if you can avoid it.

radiskull said:

The wording is indeed ambigous. So if you're right it means that a solo player only has to draw a Patrol Leader and is done with enemies. So far I've been drawing two enemies, one from the ecounter deck and one from the discard pile, if possible. That makes a difference, as these Goblins are all nasty enemies.

leptokurt said:

i really dont think you draw 2- i think its ungoliants spawn idea- where if youre solo you search for it- so search for patrol leader

You *definitely* don't draw two. The card instructs you to search [the encounter deck and discard pile] for [1 card]. You should only be pulling 1 card from these effects.

radiskull said:

Ok, I can't disagree with Dr Baltar.

Makes the quest a bit easier (bye bye, Goblins).

radiskull said:

It would seam to me to be "search the encounter deck "OR" the discard pile" to be what you are saying. I'll ask Nate this one.

Still I see what you mean on AND vs THEN.... but as it says and... and following your logic.. the command is saying "Reveal the Encounter deck and look in the discard pile at the same time, then choose card X from either pile and then shuffle the encounter deck"

The and is linking searching the encounter and the discard into the same action.. so the encounter deck would still be revealed and shuffled if it worked your way anyway...

That's exactly what I'm saying. Additionally, you can feel free to search both to compare your options if you like, but only pull out 1 card.

If you get a reply from Nate, let us know.

so your hummerhorn example still dose not work as you shuffle the encounter deck anyway no matter where you get teh card from.

You're right about that - I checked the FAQ and any time you "search" a deck, you shuffle. So even if you find what you need in the discard pile right away, you still "searched the encounter deck and discard pile" and need to shuffle. Good catch.