Can hoax discard Barroom brawler to cancel all attach roll successes after she had roll her shock roll?

Can Aeteros bullrush a character muitiple time as long as he have movement point left. Causing 1 auto wound each time.

whipko said:

The rules say: "...of one attack roll targeting you, after the dice are rolled"

Imho, "the dice" rolled relate to "the attack roll", so I think the decision should be made right after the result of the attack roll is clear. That means before the shock roll. Other opinions?

whipko said:

I think so. This question never occured to me, since nobody I play with uses Astaros. He has been inofficially banned from our table.

Well, I don't think there is any rule that forbids you from bullrushing the same charcter over and over. Though in my play group we made a hous-rule that says Asteros may only Bullrush the same character once per activation.

Page 17 Bull Rush section 3rd paragraph: "A character may only attempt one Bull Rush per activation."

But how does that rule interact with this quote from the Asteros rules: "When Asteros makes a Bull Rush, he may move through as many characters as he has movement for." So he makes one Bull Rush through several characters. Why not one Bull Rush several times through the same character?

Miah999 said:

That explains how often one given character can bullrush (active). Astaros already breaks this rule with his special ability. The question here is: how often can a given character be bullrushed (passive) in one activation/turn. And since there is no rule that really explains I assume she can be bullrushed as often as the activated char can, limited by his movement points. This fact is not only important for Astaros. One could also bullrush Hoax more than one times in one activation to make her visible.

Oh I see...

As long as a different active character is preforming the Bull Rush, the same target may be Bull Rushed as often as possiable.

I.E.

Stoss v. Hoax... then later...

Eva v. Hoax... then later...

Karl v. Hoax... etc. all in the same game turn.

As for Asteros, he may move through as many characters as he wants as long as he keeps winning the stmina duels. His special rule trumps the base rules.

I.E.

Eva, and Karl are standing in a row, with one circle between them...

Asteros makes a stamina duel against Eva, he wins, and moves to the circle between Eva and Karl...

Then Asteros must make another duel against Karl, he wins, and moves to a circle beyond Karl.

If Eva and Karl were adjacent; then Asteros would have to win both duels before he could move to a circle beyond Karl, but this is often a moot point as I have never seen Astros loose a stmina duel, except against Zor'ka or Natalya.

You ninja ??!

I think the rule Miah quoted is clear for all characters except Asteros. One Bull Rush per activation means a given character can only attempt to bull rush one character once per activation. Bull rushing the same character twice would be two Bull Rushes. So I'd say the only question is if Asteros could possibly bull rush someone several times in one activation.

With movement point of 7. Asteros can easily bullrush an adjacent character 3-4 times injured him 1 auto wound each time. Plus his action as an attack can easily kill an adjacent hero each turn.

??! said:

Exactly. But I could not find anything in the rules to prevent him doing so. So, yes, he can, according to my understanding of the rules. Good arguments against this opinion are welcome, though...

Okay, so Asteros can Bull Rush the same character several times, thus he is even more powerful than I thought he was. He really can kill an adjacent hero every turn. But who in his right mind will go near Asteros? And going one step further: Who even plays Asteros? He is so overpowered it's not even fun to use him.

No one I know plays Astaros. Even self-declared power gamers shun away from him. There should be a errate about the beast soon. Looks like people just buy him to have a complete set of Tannhäuser, but that is a little bit of a waste of money

I guess Matriarchy could beat Astaros team in objective mode or dominion mode, since his´ team lacks one trooper and the voivoid rush comes even more to bear. They just swarm the whole map and the opposing forces just have not enough characters to stop them.

First create powerful characters, later tone them down with erratas? I kind of dislike that. FFG should rather release powerful Epic Heroes for all the other factions to even things out. That way, Asteros wouldn't be a problem any more AND we would get new Tannhäuser figures!

Powerful epics like Asteros for all factions will destroy the game imho. The whole game and setup will evolve just around the leading epics. The key to victory will be reduced to kill the enemy´s epic and then wipe out the helpless remaining "ants" with ones own epic. All other characters are doomed to play secondary roles, and this is not to my taste. I saw that in WH Version XXX when all players just commanded some high costing monsters/demons/vampires pumped up with magic super items etc, and they regiments of ordinary troopers were just bought to satisfy some minimum 25 % cost role: As soon one player eliminated the most powerful unit, the game was practically over, as no existing remaining model on the field could damage your trump. We ended with banning the huge monsters because the game was rendered totally boring. I´d hate this to happen to Tannhäuser.

But I would greatly embrace epic heroes like Natalya for all faction. She is not that unbeatable. Her stats are great, but at least drop as soon she is wounded. Her equipment is nice, but not over the top like Asteros. She even got a risky item. She´s got five rows of hp, but it´s bearable because the team looses a trooper-slot. I think she is hard, but ok. I´d l not fee like cheating when fielding her.

By the way, anybody had a fight with an Asteros included team vs a Natalya included team? I would be interested if Asteros is such a beast that he even bests Natalya in short time. Or can she stand up to him?

Katsuyori said:

I agree completely. He needs to be toned down. No use for him otherwise...

I think Epic does not have to mean 7s in all rows, and as long as FFG keeps that in mind I think they can maintain what balence TH has.

Well as I've reported before - I've played five games with Asteros on one side. All were solitaire, The team with Asteros won three out of five.

In my last game Hound Dog took Asteros down, through an unbelievable stroke of luck it has to be said.

I don't believe he is overpowered in story or objective mode, and I use Deathmatch (where he is ridiculously good) only to teach the game to newbies

I'm planning to make my next game an Epic versus Epic game - on one side Natalya and the heavy marines Barry, John etc - the other, the aliens from beyond team including Asteros and Itami

...... wait a minute a girl in power armour versus an alien warrior? Maybe this idea has legs

-Nhoj

**** good idea! Operation: Clash of the Titans!

technology with Natalya & Zor'ka backed up by Ramirez or Irishka (or both!) and a pair of Voivodes.

supernatural with Asteros & Itami backed up by Heizinger or Hoss (or both!) and a Stosstruppen.

Operation: Clash of the TItans! on labirynth map...

Artemus Maximus said:

Exactly the map I was thinking of!

Katsuyori said:

I wasn't lobbying for an Asteros clone for every faction, only for a powerful Epic for every faction, a character that somehow has a chance to go toe to toe with Asteros. The Matriarchy already has this character, it's Natalya. I still think the other factions should get their Epic too, so that we can play Epic vs. Epic with all factions. And while I never played Asteros vs. Natalya (mainly because Asteros is collecting dust at the bottom of my box of Tannhäuser figures), I'm quite curious about that battle and try it in the next days. Natalya's team will include Zor'ka, Irishka and 2 Voivodes. About Asteros I'm unsure - maybe Reich characters as support?

??! said:

I totally agree.

I did a solitaire Deathmatch on the Gevaudan board using a Matriarchy team including Natalya (Sta), Zor'ka (Sta), Irishka (Sta) and 2 Voivodes (10 MP, repair) and a Union team including Asteros (Sta), MacNeal (Cmb), Ramirez (Cmb) and Alpha (Cmb) to answer the question concerning Asteros vs. Natalya. The Matriarchy team was (as everyone will see) about supporting and repairing Natalya and Zor'ka. The Union team was built to do as much damage as possible even to high stamina characters. Alpha could even throw a Smoke grenade to hinder the Matriarchy.

The result: Asteros was brought down by Zor'ka and Natalya in a drawn-out and rather boring game. All 3 characters rolled lots of hits in their attack rolls that were immediately canceled by lots of successes in shock rolls. Both Natalya and Zor'ka were wounded by Asteros, but were repaired back to health by their support before Asteros killed Irishka and the Voivodes. In the end, Asteros as well as Zor'ka had grabbed Flash guns from fallen characters (MacNeal and Alpha of course) to have some good ranged combat option.

I don't know if this outcome can be called typical because I made 2 grave mistakes while controlling "Team Asteros". First, I placed MacNeal and Ramirez too close to one another early in the game so Zor'ka could use Awakening, move in and do 2 attacks that killed both MacNeal and Ramirez who both had really, really bad shock rolls. Second, at one point in the game Asteros threw his axe to score some important wounds and was unable to retrieve it for several turns because Natalya blocked his way. I'll really think twice before throwing the axe again.

Thinking again about the game, a different team to support Asteros would have been better, maybe a Reich team with Hoss, Zermann and a Schocktruppen. Hoss and Zermann can attack everyone who stays out of sight from Asteros, Hoss can give extra successes with Reichdoktor, Zermann and the Schock have First Aid Kits to heal Asteros if needed.

coincidentally enough! ...

yesterday I ALSO played a solo play-through deathmatch with natalya(stm)-zor'ka(stm)-irishka(stm) but versus asteros (stm) - hoss (cmd) - ozo (cmd) - stoss (cmd)

note: house rule that when Asteros is selected, the opposing force gains Shame of Minos bonus token for free & doesn't take up a slot. This left Reich with ZERO CP and Matriarchy with effectively 1 (with Hoss in play).

Same deal with combat however - Asteros received many successes, all cancelled most of the time. Charged & trampled over Voivodes like they were potato bugs. Zor'ka and Natalya seemed to take 1 wound at a time from Asteros, but were repaired until Irishka was killed by Ozo. But, in a moment of revelation, i realized that i had inadvertently brought Ozo who had Curse of Ozo within 3 circles of Zor'ka & Asteros - so Zor'ka attacked Asteros (all blocked) and Ozo was to take 3 wounds from the splash dmg, which had to be redirected to Asteros d/t curse - but Stoss, who found a crate First Aid Kit, healed Asteros - Asteros later took 2 wounds from Natalya.

The out-of-path attacks didn't do much at all to Zor'ka or Natalya, but eventually killed Irishka. Ozo, Hoss, and Stoss were eliminated by the Matriarchy as well, but in the end Asteros pretty much won on his own by taking down Natlaya then Zor'ka 1 wound at a time.

OH AND ALSO - note that i normally ignore the 1 CP to shake off/ignore/heal a wound magically option - so I imagine an even more tedious battle w/ standard rules . But at game end, Asteros was only one left and had 3 wounds...not an annihilation really.

But that's just 1 game - 1 set of [many] dice rolls. Of course, different packs and even the same setup could give completely different results. But I'm going to try something new today to try to curb Asteros - when wounded, his controller must destroy 1 Armor item (if avail) of choice a la Yula, unless none are left...or something similar

Very interesting team set-up and game! I know I shouldn't have thrown Asteros' axe! Reading this really makes me want to experiment around with Asteros vs. Natalya set-ups again.

??! said:

Why didn't Natalya, instead of blocking Asteros, not simply pick up his axe? She is epic and allowed to wield it

-Nhoj