Mighty Shot/Crushing Blow question

By Elurindel, in Black Crusade Rules Questions

The above Talents increase the amount of damage you deal by half your WS/BS bonus. Is this the effective bonus of the moment, or the bonus of yoru base statline, as it makes sense to me that the easier the attack is, the more deadly effect you can place behind it.

Verdict?

If it is a bonus to your WS/BS directly then it would add to these talents. (psy power adding to your stat)

If it is a situational bonus to the roll then no. (range, all out attack, etc.)

It is based on your bonus, which does, indeed, mean it increases through temporary benefits such as warp time. However, this is quite alright, since for tier 3 talents, they're kinda crap.

Well, that's the point. It doesn't say if it's a situational bonus or affecting by the flat statistic.

Well, the talents themselves are not situational, since they don't define a situation. They're blanket statement of "with all ranged weapons, add damage equal to half the character's BS bonus". If that bonus changes, so does the damage. Because your bonus just changed, regardless of how long it stays that way.

Also, since I think people might be confused... it's not based on what you rolled. That's called degrees of success. It's based on your characteristic bonus, which is the first number of the characteristic. So WS 40, WS bonus 4. Getting +10 to your roll does not change your bonus, it changes your roll.

Now, certain things add to your bonus, primarily unnatural characteristics and powers that give you unnatural characteristics. This adds to your bonus, and to anything calculated from your bonus. Unnatural agility makes you faster, unnatural weapon skill increases the maximum amount of hits you can generate etc etc. (unnaturals also add bonus DoS to tests, but that's irrelevant for this.)

So, a character with a WS of 40 has a bonus of 4, and thus does +2 points of damage. Pretty weak but whatever. He now busts out his mighty psy rating 10 and warptimes up. He now has a WS bonus of 14. He now does +7 points of damage. Respectable.

Following?

Basically, unless something says it's derived from your base, unmodified non-unnatural bonus, it's derived from your final "for the moment" bonus. This means unnaturals are counted, and any eventual characteristic damage discounted.

I think the issue is that Nathiel is misunderstanding the roll system a bit. Your bonus is derived from your stat. The stat doesn't change due to situational bonuses, but the roll that uses the stat as the base does change. Therefore, the stat bonus does not change due to roll bonuses.


Examples

BS of 45, BSB 4. You are shooting a Hulking creature, so your roll is against a 55 (45+10) but your bonus is still only 4.

BS 45, BSB 4, Psy Rating 4, Warptime is up. Your current BSB is 8 (4 base +4 Unnat), still rolling a 55 against the Hulking opponent.

That's what I said, just without the numbers.

I was leaving it open so we didn't have to go into all the specific things that could add to one or the other. The difference for the talents mentioned is wether it's a modifier to the attribute or a modifier to the roll. There are a number of talents using these. The cap on extra attacks for swift/lightning attack, the bonus magnitude damage from Storm of Iron or Whirlwind of death, etc.

It's like the difference on a roll between the bonus to your Strength from Power Armour and the bonus to the roll from training in the skill being used. the bonus to the stat also increases the stat bonus, while the skill just makes the roll easier.

The same can be said of penalties. the -20 Ag for Terminator armour will decrease your base move and initiative.

Related question: Let's say your WS is 50 and you have Crushing Blow. Do you get an additional 2, or 3 damage? I couldn't find a description in the book about rounding up or down in such a case.

The rules doesn't say whether you round up or down afaik, but I would round up. That makes bonuses like unnatural strength +1 useful beyond a simple damage bonus and how much you can carry.

Actually IIRC there is a rule somewhere in the front of the book that says you always round up. I don't have my book on me atm though, so I cant check.

If there's nothing saying otherwise, just use the regular rules for rounding and x.5 rounds to x+1.