As instructed by the rules, I've set aside those defeated enemies and locations which have victory points. When the encounter deck runs out, do I shuffle those cards along with the rest of the discard pile? Or are the victory point cards permanently removed from play?

They are permanently removed from play, thank god.

Yay!

Out of curiosity, where is that rule officially stated?

you also only shuffle the cards back in during the questing phase.. so if you run out during the shadow card phase.. you DO NOT shuffle and basically get free shadow cardless attacks.

tripecac said:

page 24

Page 24's Victory section says we "should" put the card near our threat dial as a reminder of points scored. It does not say we "must" place it aside, and it does not explicitly state whether that card is considered part of the discard pile when it comes to replentishing the encounter deck.

The "should" implies that the player can opt to *not* place the card near the threat dial. If the player makes that choice, then the card goes into the discard pile, correct? And therefore the player has a chance of killing it again should the encounter deck run out?

The scoring section (page 22) makes no mention of the victory point cards needing to be separate from the discard pile. So, the instant you defeat an enemy or location with victory points, you have "earned" those victory points, regardless of where you choose to place the card.

So, there is still ambiguity.

Player 1 might choose to set the victory card aside as a reminder, and when the encounter deck runs out, *not* include in the victory card in the encounter deck.

Player 2 might choose to write victory points on a piece of paper as a reminder and put the victory card in the discard pile, to be included again in the encounter deck when it runs out. If that player draws the card again, he gets a chance to earn more victory points from it.

Which interpretation is correct?

Or are both players "correct", in that is it is there choice whether to put the victory card in the discard pile or keep it permanently out of play?

tripecac said:

no even though it doesnt state they dont go back in, many quests rely on it, emyn muil comes to mind where it would be beneficial to let them go back it, and so it would be breaking the rules to do so

The rule says you shuffle the DISCARD PILE back in.... the cards you place out of play for victory points are NOT in the discard pile... so they do not get shuffled back in.... In khaz they further refine this by naming it as "the victory pile".

So, the word "should" in the rules should actually be "must"? You *must* place victory cards in a separate pile and not mix them with the discard pile?

My understanding is yes, you must place defeated cards with victory points out of play. I believe the "should" is referring to where you to place them on the table so they don't get lost among all the other cards. They also recommend that in multiplayer games, one player collects all the victory cards since they help the whole team's score. This is not a rule, but it is a good suggestion to keep everything organized.

tripecac said:

yes- i think you are reading it wrong in context- should can sometimes mean must- ie you should do such and such is not recommending it- it is instructing it

IIRC, they go to a special place called 'Victory Display', don't they?
Though I'm not sure if my playgroup call it like this or it is official.

cordeirooo said:

yeah that term was introduced in khazad