While reading through the Battlefleet Koronus supplemenent two questions came to mind:

1) How are aeronautical craft launched and retrieved? Are they shipped to the planet surface where they launch and land on runways and/or landing platforms? Or are they capable of making a short trip through space from low orbit to the atmosphere? Or does the ship itself go into the atmosphere and launch its aeronautical craft from there?

2) On a related note: How are the troops that are in a boarding torpedo retrieved? Are they more or less stuck in the enemy ship and will they have to steal a shuttle to get back? Or are they retrieved by shuttles send by their own ship? Or does a boarding torpedo have a means of returning to the ship?

re: the aeronautical vehicles, I'd assume they'd be capable of short orbital hops, otherwise they wouldn't be very useful on primitive planets. Bringing the main ship, even into the upper atmosphere, would be a Very Bad Idea ( TM ), what with atmospheric drag, ram pressure, and the like.,

Good question re: torpedos - perhaps the rear section breaks away and heads back when it's done? leaving the armour-punching prow behind?

Drhoz said:

Correct on all accounts. The rear of a boarding torpedo functions as an escape pod and aeronautica can make short trips to ships in orbit, much like shuttles.

Thanks for the (quick) answers!

Rift said:

Did you get that somewhere from the fluff, or is that your own interpretation?

Red Bart said:

I can support the second statement. During the Third War for Armaggedon, Ork fightabombers were at a distinct disadvantage during the initial stages of the invasion as they had to reserve part of their fuel tanks to regain orbit and dock with their carriers, thus limiting their dogfighting time. Once the Orks gained ground and were able to establish airstrips the time turned dramaticly against the Imperial squadrons.

Also, the Fury interceptor from Into the Storm has a mention that most of its patterns are capable of atmospheric flight. I'd assume most craft can perform in both situations, but with considerable less performance(as they are not designed that way).

The first, I'm not sure if I got that from one of our other enthousiastic forum members or a semi-cannon eratta from FFG, but you could try searching for it on the forums. I think its the best explanation, but hey...if everyone subscribed to my world views I'd be Ruler of the World.

But fightabomberz and fury interceptors are both not aeronautical craft strictly speaking, as they are primarily used for void fights. So that wouldn't really be indicative of what the fluff says.

Not that it really matters. Both rules sound right so I'll definitely use them!

Imperial Aeronautica can generally make sub-orbital hops to rendezvous with an orbiting carrier (well, the Thunderbolt and Lightning certainly can, as they are fitted with a heavy rocket booster for hard-stand take-offs and boosting out of the atmosphere, but the Lightning, at least, has little void-maneuvering capability. The Thunderbolt used to be used as a void-fighter until the Fury was introduced to replace it [incidentally halving fighter squadron sizes, but the Fury has sufficient extra capability that this was still considered an advantage]). The Marauder lacks the rocket booster, but has sufficient engine power to lift itself out of the gravity well, and has the option of switching between slightly limited void and air-breathing flight as standard. Valkyries and Vultures must be deployed to the surface and recovered via an intermediate shuttle vehicle of some kind, as they are pure air-breathers, with a relatively low service ceiling.

As for the Fury (I know, not technically Aeronautica, but the point was raised)- the standard Fury needs a non-trivial refitting and modification before it can be used in-atmosphere. It's not a strip-down-and-rebuild job, but it's not as simple as switching out weapons loads (for example), and would presumably seriously limit the flight endurance for void-based missions (well, probably all missions, but running out of fuel and/or life support is a bigger worry in space).

The Ork generally doesn't discriminate between voidfighters and aeronautica- the same "design" gets used for both functions (well, there probably are major differences, but the orks think of them as the same thing- a fighta-bomma is a fighta-bomma).

I'm fairly sure the boarding torpedo interpretation is right, but I'm fairly certain I've read examples in which the whole torpedo was used as a "return vehicle", having retained sufficient fuel in the retro thrusters to separate and get clear of their target's point-defence fire zone. May have been a particular pattern of boarding torp, and dependent on not impacting too hard (so, less of an armour-piercing nose, more clamp on and burn through with plasma/melta torches).
That said, there have also been examples of boarding parties making their way there in torpedoes, and being retrieved by follow-on assault shuttles (presumably taking advantage of the fact that point-defence turrets must choose to shoot at either attack craft (fighters, bombers, assault boats, etc) or torpedoes, so make of that what you will. Of course, the main example that springs to mind has the follow-on craft be Thunderhawks, with the boarding party being Astartes of the former IX Legion, with the result that they can probably make a decent attack and retrieval no matter which is targeted.

That would pretty much mean that Valkyries and Vultures have to be shipped to a planet, and operate from landing platforms. I can see them being dropped from a large transport shuttle or some such, kickstarting their engines while falling towards the planet (sounds cool actually ). Retrieval through the same shuttle is not really an option though as it lacks landing bay facilities.

Boarding torpedoes seem to be up for interpretation. I'll probably allow some sort of escape pod that can be ejected from the rear of the torpedo, unless the players specifically opt not to include them.

Alasseo said:

You are correct in the statements of Imperial aeronautica listed in Aeronautica Imperialis. (Although I can't find where it says that the Marauder can clear a gravity well the fluff does say it can operate in the Void and thus presumably could do so.) Both the Fury Interceptor and the Starhawk bomber listed in ITS and BFK are explicitly stated as being able to operate in an atmosphere. What we lack are stats for craft such as the Thunderbolt fighter and Marauder Bomber for comparison. In BFK all Starfighters/Bombers are considered "Heavy" aircraft for purchase whereas Lightnings and Thunderbolts are light and medium respectively. This means that one of the primary differences between the two is cost. I am still waiting for the DH "Only war" supplement which will hopefully include stats for aeronautica!

BTW: in BFG transports and escort class vessels were capable of landing on a planet. Thus, it is entirely likely that a transport with a hold launchbay could enter the atmosphere and deploy squadrons of Vultures and Valkyries (As well as Thunderbolts, Lightnings and Marauders!). If you look at games like Space Marine, Voidships operating inside a planetary atmosphere are much like huge floating islands. They certainly wouldn't do much in the way of "maneuvering" other than to land (A long process probably similar to docking a blimp and taking hours!) or returning to space. Of course crashing a Voidship can be done fairly quickly ! (It also happens to be one of the primary Ork troop delivery methods. Roks land on a planetary surface in a semi-controlled crash!)

I recall one Black Library book where this topic was discussed. ( Execution Hour , perhaps?) The book claimed the carrier - a Dictator class cruiser - dropped down into the upper atmosphere to launch and recover the aeronautica. Imperial ships do have grav-plates, so they might be able to dip in to the atmosphere without ruining themselves.

That said, some aeronautica, like the Thunderbolt, do have a booster that makes them capable of reaching orbit.

Cheers,

- V.

For what it is worth about launching / recovering aeronautica, a ship (of any size) needs to be in low orbit to conduct orbital bombardment. This could potentially be as close as 80km to the surface of an earth-like planet. Given that our current real world tech has a record flight altitude of 112 km from a rocket-plane in 2004, I have no problems with the idea of Imperial warships entering low orbit to disgorge swarms of aeronautica and recover them afterwards.

We also know that factory ships (the Goliath and any vessel with a plasma scoop) can enter a gas-giants atmosphere. This is any ship of battle-cruiser or smaller size.

As for boarding torpedoes, I have no idea, but I have been inspired to create the following:

One-Way Boarding Torpedoes: simillar to normal boarding torpedoes, but lacking any form of return mechanism. Instead, the boarding parties have to rely on their own viscousness and ingenuity to comander transport back to their parent vessel. Availability is rare, and failed hit and run actions from the torpedoes result in 1d5 morale damage to the parent vessel. All other stats are the same as a normal boarding torpedo.

Well, according to Imperial Armour Vol I, the Marauder (both Bomber and Destroyer variants) have a service ceiling of 41,000m using their jet engines, so, roughly half the lower limit Hygric posits. This means that the Marauder cannot be launched and recovered from orbit if it only uses jet propulsion. Given we have a number of examples of just such a thing happening (that particular discussion is not in Execution Hour , btw, although it may be in Shadowpoint . A better example, however, would be the short story Raptor Down ), then either Imperial Navy carriers routinely come down to ~40km altitude, or craft like the Marauder transition to rocket-mode engines at 41km.

Since that service ceiling is the altitude above which their engines get too oxygen-starved to function (at least, at an efficiency to maintain sufficient airspeed to generate lift), a rocket-mode which provides the same, or even similar amounts of thrust would be sufficient to get them well out of atmosphere and out of the gravity well.

Incidentally, according to the same source, the Thunderbolt's service ceiling is 39,000m and the Lightning's is 36,000m, although both of these mount the dedicated rocket-booster to get them to an orbiting carrier vessel or station.

Further support for the Marauder is that (like the Thunderbolt) it used to be deployed in a tactical void-strike capacity before being replaced in that role by the Starhawk.

I'll briefly note that Execution Hour (and all other fluff I've found on the Fury) indicates that they do require the refit for atmospheric use (and presumably, although it isn't stated, so does the Starhawk). However, that was not in reference to the Calixis pattern (which, incidentally, is not explicitly capable of entering and operating in atmosphere: the entry in ItS merely notes that many patterns of Fury are designed so they can, and applies the Spacecraft rule to it. Implicit, but not explicit), which, thanks to the Imperium's nomenclatural system, means that it is entirely possible that the Calixis-pattern can enter and operate in atmosphere without modification. Ah, the Mk and -pattern system, the great reconciler of contradictory tech-levels and capabilities.
Personally, I've ruled that the Calixis-pattern Fury does need modification for atmospheric ops, but less than a Gothic-pattern*, and with a lesser reduction in flight endurance once modified. I'll probably extend that to a Calixis-pattern Starhawk, if and when my players acquire some.

*Yes, I've used Gothic-pattern Furies in my campaigns. DH to be precise. No, I don't have precise stats, since at the time the players were in a freshly hijacked unarmed shuttle, and desperately trying to avoid the fighters without anyone actually competent to fly it or run auspex. They dived into the atmosphere.

I would think that in large part the difference between say, a Lightning or thunderbolt vs. a thunderbolt in the atmosphere would be seen in maneuverability! The aeronautica would have a much higher maneuverability bonus which would confer a tremendous advantage in a dogfight! The fury would be faster due to higher thrust engines. When said aeronautica boost into space they would lose that bonus (Since it's not what they were designed to do!)and become meat for the much more powerfully armed fury! I really wish ffg would come up with some "Official" stats for these aircraft in one of their books!

Aeronautical:

1) I would assume there are multiple launch and retrieve scenarios, depending on the situation.

A) Orbital launch: Your vessel is close to the planet, and the fighter craft get launched by the fighter bays into a specific vector for insertion: all the maths and calculation are done by the main vessel - the crew simply sit and wait for a light to turn green: meaning they have full control of the craft.

A1) The craft are launched cold, and they must determine their vector for approach (or follow a pre-determined path).

B) Atmo Launch: the main vessel enters the upper atmosphere and the craft are launched hot, with full control.

In any of the launch scenarios, you can add additional flavour.

Retrieval:

A) Rocket boosters push the craft into space for a pre-determined pick-up location, and are guided by the fighter control systems on the main vessel.

B) Main vesel enters atmo and the craft are guided into the bay.

C) The craft land, and must be brought-up indirectly.

C1) Craft are partially disassembled and brought up in a few specific freighter-haulers.

C2) Craft are re-fitted, and can launch themselves back up.

C3) Craft are loaded on many craft and brought up to the main vessel.

Forgive me for bringing real world information into a 40K discussion...

On present day Earth, the top of the stratosphere is between 51,000 and 54,000 meters. (It varies depending on weather, season, and solar conditions.) The atmospheric pressure at the stratosphere top is only 1/1000 that at sea level, so that's some rather thin air. The Von Karman line, traditionally considered the boundary to space, is about 100 kilometers. The airspace in-between is very thin indeed, but its enough to burn up small meteors.

So, that puts most 40K aeronautica into the upper reaches of the stratosphere. (Actually, this is considerably better than present day jets, most of which can't do more than 15,000 meters or so.) But, it's not enough to make it back to a ship under their own power unless either the ship can dip down into the atmosphere, or the aeronautica have good rocket boosters fitted.

Cheers,

- V.