Ellaria Martell/Red Vengeance question

By squatting monkey, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

You've probably heard this one in some form, but any clarification would be appreciated.

If I play Red Vengeance to change the player suffering the claim effect, can I then trigger Ellaria Sands response for "losing the challenge" since technically the challenge went through, but the claim was altered?

Thanks,

Squatting Monkey,

San Antonio

squatting monkey said:

You've probably heard this one in some form, but any clarification would be appreciated.

If I play Red Vengeance to change the player suffering the claim effect, can I then trigger Ellaria Sands response for "losing the challenge" since technically the challenge went through, but the claim was altered?

Red Vengeance does not change who loses the challenge. As you say, all it does is replace the loser of the challenge with another player when it comes to suffering the claim of the challenge. The original loser of the challenge is still considered the loser of the challenge and can trigger any effects that require him to have lost a challenge.

Compare Red Vengeance to Burning on the Sand, which does not allow "after you win/lose a challenge" effects to be triggered, because no one is considered to have won/lost the challenge.

Much appreciated; I think I've almost got the "language" of the game down.

Well... be extra careful, because you sometimes get surprises when someone thinks of a new card interaction.