I am starting a new campaign and I have a player playing a High Elf who wants to play a High Elf Noble. i.e. He wants to go from Envoy to Ambassador. He saw in Lure of Power that Ambassador has the noble trait. He then become excited with the idea of playing a High Elf noble and he proposed me a background and a story which makes sense to me, and the best it will be fun. So far so good for me with the Elf noble which possess no lands in the Empire.

The problem I have is that in the Lure of Power nobles get some benefits and obligations that I don't feel comfortable on how to apply to a non-human noble. Are humans impress by his rank? or are they more afraid of the Elf? Does he have the same obligations as other nobles? the same benefits?

I ask the vast wisdom of this forum to help me on how to face this as a GM.

Thanks

Interesting idea. However my first concern or question is...

Is he a noble in the human culture or is he an elf noble? I mean is his station that he carries recognized by the Elves or Humans? The reason i ask is the noble career and responsibilities you mention come with duties to the subjects below your station. I'd imagine if an elf was in a position of power over humans taht would be very awkward to say the least.

Now on the otherhand if he is granted a noble status amongst the elven culture and is traveling through the empire, i see no problem with that. But frankly i dont see Empire citizens acting all that different to a High Elf vs a High Elf Noble, they are both crazy mystical and fancy and probably get similar awe.

Gitz

Gitzman said:

This is the option he will be playing. I don't see to much consitency on an Elf being a Noble in the Empire, like owning lands and so on.

But still, he will have some air of authority, or he will act as if he has it. He will claim he is from a noble elf family. He will show pride. Does it impress local human nobles? Does this inspire awe on human commoners? Does it make sense to give him all or some of the advantages /disadvantages of nobility listed in Lure of Power pg 27?

I would recommend going the route of humans pinning the "noble" label on him due to a glitch in trans-culture translation. Perhaps the closest that a human can come to understanding the Elf character's role in Ulthuan is...*sigh* just call me Lord Siwamae and let's move along to discuss our trade disputes, and this business with those upstarts in Karak Azgaraz. This way you can hang more of the game mechanics as-written on him without it seeming like you are just stuffing an Elf into a human noble's suit and calling them the Phoenix King. It will then be more on the player to roleplay a misunderstood Elf in propper haughty and aloof style.

An Elf being drapped with all the pomp and circumstance of Empire nobility would be akin to C-3PO being worshiped by the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi. It's advantageous to be thought so highly of and to be able to cut through so much potential red tape. But at the end of every day he's got to look himself in the mystic mirror of elfkind and wonder if he's improving humanity with his pressence...or if they are turning him into one of them. Queue drama!

Mmm..good roleplaying this is

There will be humans who will snicker behind his back (they already do that with some of their fellow humans), but it's likely that there is a standard amongst nobility to accept them when they have followed protocol.

Don't forget, you don't just show up at a nobles castle, dirty and bloody syaing you're a noble. The PC MUST hire a herald to announce his/her arrival and possibly a letter of recommendation (see Spires of Altdorf adventure for goodness here), or they'll simply deny entry until proper protocol is followed.

"Well, how do we get proper protocol?" Jeeves the butler at the door will explain it to them..for a price or perhaps he doesn't have time and they've got to find out from someone else..writing a letter to their superiors for instance.

Make the noble PAY for stuff like that: bribes, gestures, heralds, letters of recommendation, gifts, etc. People just don't get in to see other nobles "just because they're nobles." Watch/rent THE TUDORS series on Netflix if you get the chance. It's all about this stuff and was great inspiration for situations like this in my campaign

Explain this to the player before they get going however.

...and here's an awesome website for just scrolling down and looking at pictures(I like the hand drawn ones): www.squidoo.com/hampton-court-palace

jh

Emirikol said:

One thing worth remembering here is that an actual Noble from Ulthuan will probably know the version of all this that dominates the courts and palaces of Ulthuan. Proper etiquette and protocol will, of course, vary by nation... but it'll also vary by province as well, with the aristocracy in Ostland likely having quite different standards of courtly behavior than those favoured in Altdorf (and similarly, court life in Chrace and Caledor is likely quite different to that favoured in Lothern), so there's always a little room to manoeuvre where foreign dignitaries are concerned (be they Elven, Dwarfen, Bretonnian or Kislevite). Best case scenario, a lucky, cunning and suave Elven noble could probably play up his exotic foreignness, and end up having people adopt his etiquette as the latest fashion... at least for a couple of months. Local nobility are often so easily impressed by exotic foreign things, adopting them in order to make themselves look more important and more cosmopolitan...

Also remember that someone serving as a diplomat in a foreign nation in an official capacity should probably be either briefed on the subject, be naturally familiar with it from prior experiences, or have someone along to help them avoid the worst social faux pas . It'd be the same with nobles from any culture or species

I was a bit confused with the rules presented in chapter 5: expanded rules of lure of power. From one side, they allow a Dwarf or an Elf to be of noble birth and have all the adventages and disadventages, obligations etc of nobility in the lands of the empire (which as we already discussed here, seems a bit odd), on the other side, all the background and references of the chapter are clearly aimed to humans.

Therefore I ask FFG

Dear Mr. Clark
In the game there can be found the following careers with the Noble trait which are accessible for both humans and High elves:

Basics: Diletante, Courtier, Fop
Advanced: Ambassador, Captain, Duelist

My question is, the expanded rules for nobility presented in Lure of Power chapter 5 (noble rank, noble birth, noble's obligations…), are meant only for humans? or can they be also applied, for example, to a high elf residing in the empire?

Once again, thank you for your time, and for such a great game.

Best regards,
Yepes

Yepes,

Although the noble rules are written within the context of the Empire and Imperial nobility, there's no reason that the same rules couldn't apply to elf or dwarf characters. The precise nature of the noble rank differs somewhat and the obligations placed on the noble character may be considerably different based on his parent culture. It is likely that Imperial nobles will be bewildered determining who outranks whom (and by default assume a local noble outranks a foreigner), but in general a dwarf Thane or high elf noble can expect to be treated as a noble even in the Empire.

Enjoy the game!

~Dan Clark
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

Which are your thoughts? Do you find easy to justify an elf or a dwarf holdings lands in the empire? or having a human liege lord? or from the mechanical point of view, does it make sense that a non-human noble gains a white die for intimidation and leadership checks against the brass tier? do really the brass tier care about a dwarf or elf lord?

The answer of Mr. Clark is clear, is my imagination what fails.

To me the interaction modifiers for nobles reflect the status differental and legal standing within the same culture and legal system. Imperial nobles have a very particular standing vis a vis commoners (e.g., they get a slap on wrist for the worst they do to a commoner, a commoner may get executed for the least they do to a noble). Noble standing in any non-Imperial culture does not necessarily impart these rights and thus does not impart these reactions. An elf noble get a bonus to Leadership over humans in brass tier, I think not.

Even among peers, the fortune dice bonus is for being "well versed in dealing with ones peers". Just how well versed is a dwarf or elf noble in dealing with human nobles - do they even consider the short-lived chaos-corruption prone monkeyboys to be peers? I would let an Ambassador career foreign noble gain the benefits UPON compeleting the career as part of their career bonus. Until then they can roleplay the many faux-pas (as the Bretonnians say) they commit.

Then again, I'm a bastard GM who regularly gives misfortune dice on social actions across cultural/racial lines "just because they don't like your kind" etc.

Yepesnopes said:

This elf is a pc in my game and she's a noble of significance back in Ulthuan (or rather the eldest scion of a mega important elven noble family). Humans don't treat her any differently than any other elf, the other high elves she meets treats her with respect befitting her station (every Elf knows how important her last name is) but she doesn't order them around as all lower class elves are employees of more important elves in my game. Even if she would try and throw her weight around (which her character wouldn''t) humans would listen to her and the other elves are their master's property and that would be impolite. Being a noble herself makes her more interesting to noble humans which is a benefit in that regards but they wouldn't see them on the same social level as her (and vice versa and even the most minor elven noble is far superior to anuything Ubersreik has to offer and in Anierra's case this is especially true).

Mechanic wise she gets a better shame threshold. There is no real consequence for her actions as there really isn't that many people to dob on her and the fact that she is under self imposed exile/work experience to avoid getting married obviously means that she is not interested in her reputation anyway.