Does anyone remember Operation Paperclip (OP), Operation downfall (OD) and operation Harpoon (OH).

Once I got my head around a ww2 game with Mechs (it was fairly easy as an ex at-43 player) I got the core set. I was very impressed with the orginal core set (Its was like two army boxes in one! and contained what I considered all the basics to build upon a new and interesting alternative world) - our group was very surprised to see at the back of a rule book a section called THE FIGHT GOES ON SECTION.

After the Cyclone - adds more basic units to pad your Axis and Allies army we were told of

- OP - A terrifying castle in the heart of Germany.

- OD - Vrill expansion

- OH - This expansion will allow you to play the aircraft provided in the box. These powerful vehicles can ravage the battlefield in one pass.

Things change and to my (and our groups) disappointment - the German Castle was scrapped. Seelowe got both zombies/Apes and the next generation of solidiers promised in the seelowe description.

Then things completely changed. The revised core set came out expanding on Seelowe from a story point of view and Heavy walkers ( never mentioned ) came out.

Not that thats a bad thing. We have seen lots of great things.

But I'm starting to feel a little under whelmed by the diversity of the dust world and the the story development. Not thats time to pack up and give up. The models are great and are ready to play (and the Premium models are the best in the industry - by a mile).

I look at other games e.g. SOTR and although they have a world that seem much more developed with a greater diversity of units and effects - the models don't compare (Largely because they are metal blister packs (Which need painting or look terrible) and the moulding is not as clear, well defined or realistic looking as DT)

So whats your point. The Russians models - AK-47 and troops look great - as to be expected. We have a helicopter which is not alternative - except they were not really used in the major battles of ww2 and came later.

But its seem a bit plain jane.

I was always looking forward to the German castle expansion because it apppeared to offer a world of mad scientists and de-ranged experiments.

Should Dust tactics be more alternative in the sci-fi/horror/ideology sense or is it an alternative world (ww2/early cold war) with just Mechs and a couple of new techologies (lasers/phases etc..).

Should we see (ramdon brain storm)

More Zombie types (we only have little zombies currently)

A dark German Castle with mad deranged experiements.

Psych powers

Genetically made humans troops (this is how I understand the German heavy troopers to be)

Vrill tripods towering over the battle fields

Russian cloning facilities

Gentically enhanced guard dogs.

Etc..

Or do people want this to basically stay a ww2/early coldwar military game (with mechs and a couple of new tec weapons like - lasers).

Just interested in view?

Well to be honest i was hoping the game will stick to WW2 + alien tech scenario. I never liked the zombie/gorillas fluff and i'm hoping we will stay in the world war climax for a whlie. The overall story is developing slower than i would expect after seeing the core set, but what can you do. I miss the exact discriptions of units like for Luther that it was used in Stalingrad etc. In new unit you just get some basic info, fluff gets less and less important . But i haven't seen cerberus so maybe it's just my bad view.

I like the way DT is going at the moment, love the zombies, not so keen on gorilla's but they were in the comic so I'm good with that. I hope the expansion will soon include Lara's walker and the Rocket Truppen from the comics and then move into some Axis Occult and troops from other nations. What I don't really want to see is the Vrill and would pefer them to be hidden and mysterious in the background, releasing aliens will be the turning point from WWW2 to sci-fi - don't want that.

The game seems to be developing with a fair balance for now. High tech weaponry is relatively uncommon and the background behind zombies and apes looks promising enough. Both are elements just barely under control. Vrill will bring the pure scifi elements (you can always just ignore them). I've got to love the armord infantry, both with high tech weapons and machine guns (specially love the latter, they are way cool).

The development is going well, it seems. The Britain theater is interesting enough. The Zverograd one brings the SSU on. With them on the boards, I'd like to see some terrain tiles expansion which gets all kinds of terrain covered, with jungles, mountains and deserts so we can play Italy, Iceland, the Soviet front, the Brazilian and African jungles, Oceania, Egypt and China.

A strategic version of the game, some kind of revamp and rerelease of the strategic board game, could be great for campaign palying, with different boards for different theaters: Europe, Africa, North and South America, Asia and Oceania...

Also it would be lovely from a collecting point of view the release of OoB for the different forces.

I think, and this is just my personal perception, that most players would want to stay away from strange-zoo-horror-models in general, even though some of them could find their place in the DT universe. For example, gorillas and zombies are already on the edge for many players, but they kind of grow on you, perhaps. Now, if you imagine adding all kinds of crap on top of that like German Vampires, Werewolfs etc and you would probably make plenty of people leave the game.

Most play it because of it's fine balanced setting where things haven't gone all too crazy yet and where we can still feel at home with the WW2 scenario: This is in my point of view already pushed to it's limit with revived german soldiers (zombies) and smart planet of the apes-kind of gorillas. Adding more will make the game more geared towards a younger audience in general, and that is probably the wrong move given they don't paint nor have the cash to buy the premium edition.

I myself think it will be a huge mistake to release plenty of "strange-creature-models" (e.g. german octopus, allied kangaroos, while russian trained battle bears would kind of cool...) and I would never pay for the models myself. I think what most people find appealing is the light sci-fi and mech setting combined with the WW2 one.

More model of machines and weapons? Sure, most would love that. More freakish creatures? In most cases not, since there are only so many ways to make them freakish without breaking the theme. For example, the Chef hero is balancing somewhere on the thin line where it becomes kind of too ridiculous for my own taste.

I would love to see Dust going for ww2 mainly + a little bit of sci-fi/horror direction, I can understand that adding zombies was temptating, but gorillas are not neccessary and yet have almost the same stats as zombies, I would rather see K9 units or V2 rockets. I would love to see axis a bit grotesque, mad scientists, cyborg experiments (as heavy units) etc. Gamewise I hope they will keep factions having its own traits so they will be different to play. I love totenmeister (If he only had psy powers, I would be more than happy) and the cheef is just a laugh, he wasn't a great character in the comic as well. And there is still Vrill that will spoil the whole game.

So I think I will skip those wierd units and focus on arm2 inf mainly, snipers, artillery, and limited number of arm3 infantry to make them unique, or make a house rule that for every arm3 unit you have to field 2 arm2 units excluding command, snipers, and observers and forget about Vrill

Quote the OP

Give me Castle Wolfenstein, the slightly overcooked Nazi Zombie theme, the teen boy fantasy/oversexualized depiction of women/soft porn elements that are present in PPs vision of the Dust universe...... BUT no helicopters cause they weren't around in WWII....? Geez

My interest in/expectation of Dust will only be that of a tabletop miniatures game with a decent rules-set that combines evolved tech elements added to an AE WWII type setting. I've started stockpiling minis/model kits already but these only include non-character types and the many walkers from both FFG and DM. If anything I would want more tech related fluff and kits (enough with the CAD overlays of the Wotan just release the thing already) and less silly characters/units. Sure that stuffs present in the background but its not for me.

Bring on Dust warfare.

I'd like to see some more units in the middle-lower power range, instead of the upper end extremes we're having right now (super-heavy 4-squares walkers, helicopters, alientech powered zombies and apes).

Like some AR1 infantry units, AR2 and 3 vehicles, and some walkers based on the medium chassis but with a twist or even better, a completely different design (like the Jagdluther or the Gunther). Also a little bit less polished designs (power armored troopers, I'm talking about you) and some more nuts and bolts and rivets and bulky engines.

A bit like taking the foot off the accelerator and having the time to look at the current surroundings.

You have to keep in mind that the Basic Core was created by Dust Studio, with an idea and project in mind, then Fantasy Flight developed the Revised Core and changed a lot of the concepts (The russians were set to be out by mid 2011 before the change to FFG).

I'd like to see some more units in the middle-lower power range, instead of the upper end extremes we're having right now (super-heavy 4-squares walkers, helicopters, alientech powered zombies and apes).

Like some AR1 infantry units, AR2 and 3 vehicles, and some walkers based on the medium chassis but with a twist or even better, a completely different design (like the Jagdluther or the Gunther). Also a little bit less polished designs (power armored troopers, I'm talking about you) and some more nuts and bolts and rivets and bulky engines.

A bit like taking the foot off the accelerator and having the time to look at the current surroundings.

The AR1 and VA1, and 2 are more for Warfare, were you have more units per side but i agree with you, there needs to be more dieselpunk and less scifi.

Hekal Xul said:

Yeah you're right. Helicopters were not around in WW2 but everybody knows that the Axis and Allies used plenty of giant armored robots, zombies, genetically modified gorillas, rocket powered troops, energy weapons and heavy armored troopers!

Come on people, leave that poor helicopter alone! It didn't do no wrong to you, yet.

The Dust universe is WWW2 not WW2. If you want to play a realistic WW2 there is hundreds of rulesets available. If you like WWW2 stuff but don't like a specific unit, well, don't buy it!

You are right... No point in moaning over spilt milk, what I have to do is to start picking things I like and avoiding the other, adding maybe some 1:48 scale models and enjoy the development.

That's one of the beauties of this system. Everything is decently balanced enough that one guy could stick to more real WW2 style units where another (like me) could develop more fantastic units and still have great games against each other.

Just to point out, our local gamers are chomping at the bit for Vrill.

Oh, and one other note.. Past the hero pack, I'm really glad there are no Allied announcements. The break should allow me to finish painting mine finally

I would like to see some Werewolf Women of the SS. And a Nicolas Cage version of Fu Manchu.

Just my opinion though.

I hope we never see "Psych powers" in this game.

I can't stand psychic powers or magic in any war strategy game.

Well the totenmeister is kinda some psyhic zombie. It's flying isn't it? It also reminds me of a psycho-mantis character from Metal Gear Solid;)

as this is just a game with a solid rule set i just buy what i like and play what i like. since there are cards on another site for the basic ww2 vehicles i combine those as well for a balanced game with just enough scifi to make it different from the regular ww2 games out there. as i may be an older player than most i don't get into the theme and story line stuff anymore. I would rather play a well thought out game system that relies on my ideas and strategies rather than some magical, futuristic items. anyway i appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts as that's what makes the gaming world so much fun. and in ffg's defense when at-43 was aound it took years for new items to get released. Also the marketing was so poor the game died on the vine. I was buying unit boxes for $5 or less and one local shop actually game me the entire starter set when things really started to die out. so for me i dont think ffg is doing to bad a job right now getting items to market and promoting the game at a nice pace. remember its about playing a good game with cool minis and having a good time.

I think both Germans and Allies are in a good shape right now. They just need some flyers and perhaps walker hero-pilots like Koshka.

So this spring/summer should belong to the SSU and Vrill, to get both of those factions up to date. FFG should release some axis and allies units now and then to keep those players on their toes (the flyers and tank-heroes would fit the bill).

I'm ok with the official story, Vrill and all.

By all Means, keep the vrill out of the game as an army. I dropped a big WTF when I saw gorillas. I still don't care for them. I'm cool with zombies, but don't want them taking them too far

We need to keep it Sci-fi WW2 ish. Not aliens and monsters.

I like the mad scientist aspect too. There needs to be a dark secret behind the Axis. After all they are supposed to be the one true enemy in the game.

Like in Tannhauser, I see a later development of Japanese inspired warriors to be totally appropriate.

What next, they discover the hollow earth to be true, and expand into unknown territory?

reptilebro1 said:

I like where you are going with this.

Psykostevo said:

Heres the only problem with that. The Vrill and gorillas and zombies, etc were always planned on being part of the game because they play a good part of the background. For those of us that got into it because of that premise, it would be unfair to all of a sudden go, "ok, sorry we're not doing Vrill after all now." some of us that have been in from the beginning have been chomping at the bit for them. This is Weird War II, you should expect the releases to reflect that.

If you don't like aliens or zombies or apes or any combination of them, just keep them out of your game. Remember this is DUST Tactics/Warfare and not just SciFi WWII. The latter could be great but DT/W is not a generic setting.

Just substitute Vrill units with (still) more "technified" human factions. You can even lok for other minis to substitute for them. For example, AT43. Arkangl's excellent blog ( twc-dust-tactics.blogspot.com/ ) has cards for them.

Although I must say I don't understand the incompatibility of scifi WWII and aliens. After all the Roswell "incident" was by 1947... And the discovery of a superior ore with extrardinary energetic capabilities which happens to "grow" only on desrts and such (is there any geological reasoning behind that???) is not a less weird idea than finding an intelligent species from out of Earth which is technologically much more advanced than us. Now this is scifi. Tell else to Robert Heinlein, Orson Scott Card or Larry Niven.

But in the end, it's your game. Proceed as you like, and if you may, give some info on it, we'll appreciate it for sure.

I'm curious about the Vrill, but I see their introduction as shifting the game from WW2 to humans versus the alien invaders.

I won't mind seeing them at some point, but an alien invasion would bring human powers to treaty talks faster than anything I can imagine, so the Vrill would force the game to be a pre-invasion/post-invasion time model to retain logical consistency.

In the very short term, small alien strike teams could face separate human forces, but as soon as any side found out what they were facing, they would be crazy to not try and make allies of their formar enemies. Since Hitler and his insanity have been removed from the German heirarchy, there are no leaders crazy enough to not want aid against alien invaders remaining. Stalin had a different kind of crazy, and was willing to work with people he didn't loke or trust if he felt he needed it.

That could work, but it would effectively break DUST into two separate games.

That could be very cool, as it could mean combined arms operations between ASOCOM, Bleutkreuz, and the NKVD. Fielding Ludwigs with Hell Boys would be interesting.

I guess to keep the game fluff and separate factions the Vrill will never launch a full scale invasion. We will just have a small strike/rescue team who has some mission on earth like ie. get back the ship, or destroy all of VK. That way each faction will meet Vrill in small quantieties - so we can fight but there is no need to break up the accual force balance.

Lska said:

The problem I see in that is that the humans won't know whether it is a small strike force, or the forerunner of a full scale invasion.

Smart leaders would expect the worst, and plan accordingly, if something like that happened. Stalin was not a great leader, but he was paranoid, and so would fear the worst more than any other leader. He'd already shown willingness to both ally with political enemies, and to switch sides.

If faced with an unknown level of threat from someone with a higher level of technology than you have, would you want to keep fighting what could now be a larger multi-front war, or try to make peace with the enemies you know and understand to have a better chance against the aliens you don't?

If they had set DUST further along, when the Soviets had more hate built up because of German actions, the SSU might be more intractable. Instead, the Nazis were removed, and intelligent leadership added to the Axis to make their fielding of VK technology more possible (and the game available to more countries).