I have always liked the Mantis Warriors, a stealthy yet aggressive force, with an emphasis on ranged combat and a large complement of Snipers. I originally tried to create a set of rules for them with the Custom Chapters in Rites of Battle, but never felt like I could do justice to their style of combat. I’m now attempting to create my own set of rules for them, but I need some feedback.

This set of rules that I made assumes that the game will take place in the official era that Deathwatch was made for, ~817.M41 specifically before the Badab War, rather than when tabletop Warhammer 40k takes place, late 900s.M41 after the Mantis Warriors have finished their penitent crusade for their part in the Badab war. However, I have included optional rules for if someone wanted to play a game that took place after the Mantis Warriors were forgiven and once again allowed to join the Deathwatch.

What I really need help on now, is advice on what I should do about their Primarch’s Curse. Right now I’ve been using the Curse of their progenitor-chapter, the White Scars, but I’m not sure if I want to keep it that way. I’m also not sure if I have the prices right on the advances table. Can anyone help me out?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OQVYVp5IhmXw9Rx4nvDn5HZ6jWBw43EH9PiPbnug_gE/edit

Check out this weird flaw from the Lexicanum entry. This could maybe be a part if their Curse

"The Geneseed of the Mantis Warriors has a flaw - it does not function properly with the Preomnor implant. As such, when a Mantis Warrior sets himself into a certain frame of mind the Prenomor gland secretes a potent neuro-toxin that permanently changes the marine's physiology; the frame of mind in question is one of deepest penance and piety. This neuro-toxin alters the marine's sense of space and time, increasing his reaction rate to near precognitive states; it also increases his strength to a great extent. To a human it would seem that the warrior is simply stepping aside before anything happens. Unfortunately this marvelous gift comes at a price - the change is irreversible and the marine's sight becomes tunneled to the point of not noticing anything that is not a target. The Mantis Warriors call this state of mind the "Battle-haze". Each Company has a unit of Battle Brothers who have given their all to the Emperor and in acts of such faith have entered the "Battle-haze". These units are called Mantis Religiosa. The Battle Brother who discovered this genetic flaw was called Maetrus , a Captain , who after organising the "Praying Mantidae" subsequently fell into the "Battle-haze" whilst battling a Company of Astral Claws . "

I have tried to show this gene-seed flaw through their solo mode ability. this will let them, as a free action permanently lose -5 Fellowship, and gain 3d10 insanity in order to permanently gain +5 Strength and Agility. what I really need is a Primarch's curse effect that will use the insanity gained by this to show the "tunneled vision"

is their any other advise or criticism about the rules on the google doc?

If all else fails, take the Primarch's Curse of the White Scars.

That said, it doesn't sound to me that the geneseed flaw falls well into the categories of Solo Mode ability or Primarch's Curse. It doesn't fit the usual framework. I'd probably rather model it as a special ability that can be triggered one - with lasting effects.

Also I'd model the effects differently. I'd grant an additional level of Unnatural Strength and Unnatural Agility. I'd also count all Per-based tests as Untrained, no matter what training existed previously. Advanced Trained might be treated as Basic Untrained though.

Alex

As we can see in First Founding, there's nothing wrong with making up a Talent that is specifically for one Chapter alone, and plays to some theme or specialty of their's.

That seems like it might be a good place to start with the Mantis Warriors and their 'battle-haze'.

As with the others, I don't really see it as a good Solo-Mode ability, mostly because of the insanity gain and permanent Fellowship loss. It ends up that they can only use the ability so many times before having to retire the character, which isn't fun.

The White Scars' curse also seems like a good place to start cribbing notes from too.

However this thread makes me want to see an official version. Com'on Crimson Fists and Mantis Warriors need dedicated rules, they are main contributors of brothers. It'd make for great sourcebook material. Also Blood Ravens. Do the most important chapters FFG and add further guidelines for rolling one's own chapters.

Alex

So, would their solo mode ability be better like this? I'll make the "battle-haze" into a talent

Mantis Warriors Solo Ability: Ambush
Type: Passive
Effect: Whenever the Battle-Brother attacks an enemy who is Surprised or Unaware, they do an additional +2 damage or +2 Penetration.
Improvement: At Rank 4, the Battle-Brother gains an additional +2 Initiative in any combat when enemies are unaware of is presence at the beginning of combat. At Rank 6, the Battle-Brother gains both the Damage and Penetration bonus.

Yeah, I like the Ambush solo mode better than the geneseed flaw. Making the flaw a talent or series of talents works better.

How does this sound for a "Battle-haze" talent? (and how much should it cost?)

Special Talent: Battle-Haze
The Battle-Brother, as a Full Action, may for the rest of any combat, gain the Unnatural Agility (x2) trait, and increase his Unnatural Strength by one level (giving him Unnatural Strength (x3)). However, the marine’s vision “tunnels,” letting him focus solely on battle and the next enemy. He gains 1d10 Insanity, and (for the combat) treats all Perception based Skills as Untrained and all trained Fellowship based skills as Untrained Basic skills, regardless of any training he had previously.

You might want to consider with use of that new Talent, having to make the Mantis Warrior roll for Insanity Points, so as to bring about the nature of the flaw as part of the Primarch's Curse.

"Unfortunately this marvelous gift comes at a price - the change is irreversible and the marine's sight becomes tunneled to the point of not noticing anything that is not a target."

Irreversible, that's why it's not suited as talent or anything else. Therefore it's a chapter special ability tied to the organs. The character can deliberately choose to do so but it's a pivotal decision and should come with sufficient risks. I am not opposed to an Unnatural level for both Strength and Agility. It's a huge bonus but also super-cool. You must properly balance that though. If there are sufficient perception penalties, that is actually okay. The character will probably burn fate more often than others, if you do it right. Players are to be discouraged from setting this power off light-mindedly.

Primarch's curse could be an involuntarily triggering of the ability with a certain likelihood. Or exaggerating its effects - both ways. Or both.

Alex

ak-73 said:

You have some really cool ideas here. Based on what I'm reading, and I'll admit to not having much knowkedge of the Mantis Warriors, it seems like this geneseed flaw is more akin to the Black Rage of the Blood Angels than anything else. Perhaps it's not suitable for Player Characters?

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

I only take my knowledge from the 40K wiki page which is better than lexicanium's on this occasion:
warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Mantis_Warriors

But to answer your question: personally I guess it depends on the Watch Commander. Mantis Warriors made an above-average contribution to the DW and they are conronically under-manned if I read it right, so it stands to reason that there have been Mantis Religiosa around. I do not tend to think that it is a secret like the black rage (I might be wrong, research would have to be done here) and if it is not, then it becomes a decision for the WC whether to send home the brother or to keep him around. Don't think there is a universal DW policy wrt that (might be wrong here too). Anyway it would be refreshing to have a chapter that doesn't keep its flaw hidden by all means.

Alex