Now that we know when we will get flier rules the hero/walker combo (upcoming Operation Zverograd) there are still a few things untouched.

So when will we see.....

Infantry 1?

Infantry 4?

Armor 1?

Armor 2?

Heroes with the Command Skill?

And do you think they will PC the SSU by having them assassinate Stalin and arresting all the communists similar to how they PCd the Axis?

Peacekeeper_b said:

so let´s see;

Inf 1: I think there are 2 ways we will get inf 1 in this game a) as a small, highly trained special squad with some fancy stuff to avoid the large amount of damage they´ll have to face (something like camo/stealth troops, maybe some alien-tech) or in large (10+) squads of LOS-blocker/living armor for better units (something like drugged frenzys)

Inf 4: We´ll get those (as the description in he rule book says) not from earth-born troop..so clearly some Vrill heavy exo-suit troops or cool/lame stuff like that

Armor 1/2: i can´t really think of a usefull way to bring those into the game...civil support vehicles or transporters...in a game where every combat is like a special ops mission? I don´t hink so

Heroes with command skill: notsure; big chance to make CO more offensive or big chance to make them even more important to sit back and do some support stuff

PC: I don´t think there´s a real reason to do that, the soviets where never (in common perception) that kind of bad that the whole world quotes them as the force of pure evil, or blames you when you say something about them or even paint/play your toy soldiers like them...even though I think something like that will happen just for the sake of changing the history

the question I´m thinking about is, since neither Joe nor Sigrid are avaible anymore, and both are known to have a customized walker...will we see them as hero/walker combos...and if yes, resculpt or recycled (the heros not the walkers)...and will they bring out a normal jagdluher for sigrid then? oh so many questions and so long to wait for an answer..**** you FFG/DS!!!

It's kind of hard to PC the soviets when your first troops are NKVD (Peoples commissariat for internal affairs)... They kind of were for the Soviets what SS were for the Nazis. The NKVD ran the Gulags (forced labor camps) for example.

So it looks like the soviets are not white washed the same way the Germans are in this setting.

Well, I would be really surprised if the don`t PC the SSU... Stalin`s Soviet Union still has some good PR in Western Europe and USA as they helped to defeat nazi Germany and they ended as one of the victors... However, in the countries of Eastern Europe, directly affected by the war and post-war events, Soviets are sometimes perceived as even more mean bastards than Hitlers` boys. I was kinda shocked when I saw that SSU units are called NKVD troops, as these guys - and their organization - are widely recognized as forces of evil and war criminals with a long record of crimes against humanity. Examples?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_prisoner_massacres

Well, for me it is unacceptable and is obvious for me that if playing with SS troops is something unappropriate, so is playing with NKVD models.

It is a game. Let's just leave it as one and not make it a political statement. You can have fun playing a game (whether you play as bad guys or not), but playing at politics is rarely fun. Unless, it is a game based on politics.

It is not a quuestion of politics, but a question of simple human decency. As a grandson of a man who was murdered in Kharkov by NKVD it is a PROBLEM to me. I am 31 years old and I don`t live with my father anymore, but imagine such situation:

-Hey Mike, what are you playing?

-Dust Tactics, dad - really cool WWII sci-fi game, I can teach you if you want to play.

-Ok... Who are the gray guys?...

-Uh... well... these are Germans, but they killed Hitler, disbanded the SS, camps and stuff, you know... they are not so bad in this game.

-And the other folks?

-Well, it`s the NKVD - these are the guys that killed your pa. So, who do you want to play?

Infantry 1 could be zombies, "Romero Zombies", in large cuantities. Russians?

Vehicles 1 and 2, could be trucks and jeeps.

Gothik said:

I think everyone hears what they want to hear and see what they want to see. I choose not be offended at all the things that could offend me. With my ancestry, I could see things in a whole different light and live a life confounded with offensive things. But that just wastes my energy and takes any fun I might have in life and throws it out the window.

I know you do not want any advice, but if you would take some I would say you should not take things personally. Dust Tactics is not about offending any one individual. It is a fictional universe that has some parallels to our own with some major divergent paths. Please do not try and ruin the game for others by picking out things that could be offensive if someone really wanted to pursue it. That won't change history, no matter how much people try and ignore it or pretend it never happened. If anything, it reminds us of those atrocities and brings that history to a whole new generation that might not otherwise ever know about. There are some things in history that we want to make sure are never repeated. Covering it up will increase the chances of it happening it all over someday.

I want bad guy units in my game. I want good guy units in my game. I want them to go head to head because they have a reason to fight. Good versus Evil. If you want to play the stereotypical bad guy side and do not want to use the truly evil units. Don’t! You can create an army who politically opposes those within your regime. It happens all the time. Hence, Hitler being assassinated in the DT time line. There is nothing stopping you from a certain army with your own theme.

I dont think Armor 1 or 2 have to be vehicles, a ammo crate is Armor 3 for example. They could be doors, rasor wire, walls, and other obstacles. And I woud love some standard non body armor wearing troops/civilian stats. Infantry 1 stuff.

I imagine once we see the Kashka/Grand'ma rules they will be easily addapted for Joe and Sigrid in walkers. But I figure FFG will re-release them as such soon (within the next 6 months or so) at the same time a as to yet unreleased unannounced SSU release (light walker, heavy walker, some Infantry 3 units, special ops NKVD, Heroes of the SSU).

That is true. The armor value does indeed apply to things to non-vehicle and not exclusive. I did not consider doors, razor wire, etc. Good thoughts!

There's one thing I think we're all overlooking when it comes to the NKVD troops of the SSU. Since the Russians aren't allied with the Allies in DUST's world and they control alot of territory isn't it possible that perhaps they are infact the "bad guys" of DUST?

Back on topic, here's what I figure we'll see.

Infantry Armor 1: A Vrill squad, really cheap point cost troops similiar to Gretchin in WH40K.

Infantry Armor 4: Again a Vrill squad due to what it says in the rulebook.

Tank Armor value 1: I expect we'll see some kind of remote controlled unit similar to the German Goliath used for clearing minefields, maybe it would have some kind of Kamikaze "C" ranged attack.

Tank Armor value 2: Some sort of really quick transport unit with "Scout and Fast" with a single machinegun. These would probably only be useful in the tabletop version where we get HUGE maps requiring quick movement of troops.

I'm interrested to see what we get for Tank Armor 5.

I would imagine armor 5 would be similar to the the Jagdluther, Ryu and Fury of Ivan, so essentially tank destroyers.

I guess that Infantry 1 and Armor 1-2 are categories concerning converted or adapted figurines and vehicles from real history WWII armies (wehrmacht, jeeps, sdfkz 251, etc.).

Infantry 4 will be Vrill of course.

Regarding the good/evil theme, with the nazis out of the picture except for pockets of subversive/terrorist units/organizations, the others rest as "lesser evils", all of them. The "real" Allies and the Soviet-SSU were not that "good" and used drastic, "evil" of their own in the real history (bombings of Dresden or Hamburg, massive ****** and violence in eastern Germany, sinking of Wilhelm Gustloff and specially the A bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; and that does not take into account shooting of prisoners, etc.). As true as it is that there are many who can claim an ancestor who was killed by Soviet political military troops, there are those whose parents were killed by Germans, Americans, Italians (on both sides), British, Canadians... Just because they were at the wrong place or serving on the other side. Maybe the only difference lies with nazis/SS which were by doctrine supremacists (call it what you like), racists with no qualms to exterminate others; in the "other" side, both the allies and the soviets, it is much more a question of men with obsessions or exceptional moments (callousness by war weariness or paranoia for example) than an established modus operandi.

Really we can't get into the "which one is evil and which one is not" as the three blocs are competing for resources and pursuing their own agendas, beyond any consideration for the common good and overall peace and coexistence. We can even think of a certain stalemate in the main fronts with big pockets of army ruled portions (Twilight 2000 style) while the states supporting the different factions struggle to try to be accomodating toward ordinary life and war production...

And that does make for an interesting situation where every faction will fight every other one, including Vrill as one can not expect a full invasion because of the alleged "space" conflict that affects them. We can imagine off planet conflict before a peace settlement is done.

I remember seeing a piece of concept art for a German armor 4 Infantry, Ill try to find it again but it was basically a guy wearing a suit of armor that looked like the Gunther.

http://www.alfamodel.it/modules/xg2.1/engine/main.php?g2_itemId=11820

I assume that would be Infantry 4! www.alfamodel.it/modules/xg2.1/engine/main.php

And I would say probably have either the unagile or slow taits.

Unagile: Moves like a armored vehicles, cannot move diagonally.

Slow: Can only take one move action per turn.

Or something to that effect. Though the info in the Dust Sourcebook says it was very fast and its speed/movements harmed the pilot, so maybe if it moved diagonally or more then once per turn it suffers a 1/1 attack.

I would imagine its strengths would be offset by a hgh cost rather then other restrictions.

Gothik, it seems you'll be getting your wish. Looking at the SSU minisite today, I noticed that all reference to the NKVD have been erased. Now the squads are just "SSU", nothing else.

I guess the boxes and cards haven't gone to the printer yet, otherwise it would be a huge unnecessary expense to get all of that reprinted just to remove the NKVD references.

I really don't have much of an opinion on the matter. I'd never heard of the NKVD before that announcement, so their exclusion is no great loss. On the other hand it does seem fairly generic to just call the units "SSU Close Combat Squad" or "SSU Battle Squad"...

I think it is too bad! Watering down the history too much is not always a good thing. There could have been some good background for scenarios based upon their evil actions. Just saying. You gotta have thicker skin.

Well the comics certainly are adult oriented, and full of dark subject matter. After all there is a lot of partial nudity in the artwork. I guess they are just trying to keep the game "gamer friendly". I can respect that.

A good move removing the NKVD FFG, bravo. No reason to needlessly reduce sales based on a real name for a wargame with a fictional reality.

Just change the NKVD to Guards. That's what I planned to do anyway.

Red Guards!

Maximum said:

I couldn`t say it better. Once again, thank You FFG - it is a bold and decent decision.