Spivo said:

I think your Manichean worldview is self-evident to anyone who reads the RPGnet thread, or for that matter any thread where you condemn criticism of v3. Your "contribution" had absolutey nothing to do with the topic of PoD card packs.

Herr Arnulfe said:

Manichean, hehe. If you actually bothered to read what I write, you'd find that I actually oppose this view, and praise elements of all three editions, 1st/2nd for it's insanely good source material, and 3rd edition for the innovative system. So that can't really be further from Manichean view, as that implies not liking anything but your own faith, okay my faith could be 1st/2nd edition source with 3rd rules, but that's far fetched...?

Check the StS thread: So... "Two years on, how do you find WFRP3?" This thread title has all the needed elements for a constructive discussion. It's not positive, or negative. It's neutral, which is the only way you can ever hope to start a serious discussion.

Yes, I find 2nd edition rules a complete lack of ressources. They should have released new magic rules, or simply kept things as they were. Same as I'll agree, completely agree, that 3rd edition source material is lackluster.

Ok after some time the "excitement" fall off me and I'm not that much angry at FFG after this announcement but.

Some people made a good point - HOW WE EUROEAN PLAYERS SHOULD BUY IT?

Is there a chance that a retialer or distributor like Esdevium Games will bring this product to Europe?

The idea is fine even good but only for players in USA. We from Europe are not is such a good situation. How can we get it in Europe?

I'm not a fan of buying it on net and paying for the shipping from USA (the cheapest is ok but I will not have the guarantee of getting this product - I'm form Poland). And my FLGS said to me that the chances that they will get it are 10% . More probably they will not have this. So how can I buy it and where? Only at FFG store? Are there any chances that I will get it in Europe, specialy in Poland?

Spivo said:

I did read what you wrote. You complained about grognards who couldn't just be content with their existing v2 material (all of which you said sucks except for 2 books).

Herr Arnulfe said:

So? That means it's not Manichean at the very least. And I stand by that. I don't think 2nd edition contributed anything worthwhile apart from colleges and making a proper Empire sourcebook.

My comment about grognards, was that IF they don't like 3rd edition and apparently can never get over that it's there as a substitute for 2nd, then be contend with what there is. Is that so bad to say?

One of the above posters, who I won't mention by name, but he's been opposed to 3rd edition from launch, and has been foreseeing it's demise from the very start, interpreting every pause in products as "now it's over!" That is Manichean, and yes I had to look up the word, it was a difficult one...

Love it! Especially since I didn't see it coming. Ordered it right away! I'll buy each one as soon as they are released. I think the POD line is brilliant (bought Osgilliath and was impressed by how high quality they are). Hopefully they'll have a set to complement each college and faith, as well as Dwarf , Elf, and Dark Elf magic. And witchcraft and waaaaag!. Heck yeah bring it on! Be nice to see a set of the various horse breeds with their stats and action cards to match. And familiars and more pets. I know know it's prolly overkill but shoot I'd even buy a set of standard equipment cards! Sorry that's enough we know this list could be endless....Keep up the good work FFG!

Sorry for babbling but one more: I too agree that a pack of ALL the errata cards would be a welcome set.

Spivo said:

You should consider the possibility that some grognards aren't content with what's already there, and that's precisely why they're critical of 3rd edition. Viewing things through red vs. blue goggles might make the world easier (or more comfortable) to comprehend, so long as you remember that your comprehension is illusory and not everyone is wearing the same goggles.

Beren Eoath said:

The same way us Americans get **** from over in Europe, order over the net and pay the shipping, deal with it!

Herr Arnulfe said:

My comment was not directed, and for the confusion I'm sorry, at grognards who would like more source material than has already been made in all the editions, but at those who don't like the system. And a thread title like the one at rpg.net, is aimed at the system and not lack of the not yet covered source material.

The two types of grognards are very different, one loves Warhammer for all of it, red/black/blue, everything is good (as long as it's well written), but the other type seems to have all the rage directed at FFG and the system they made, with their real only solid argument being that it contains cards, and apparently thus should be labelled a board-game.

The later wants die hard to see FFG fail with it, which you can see if you flip through their post history, as they see every move as a sign of it being dead. That has nothing to do with wanting to see more source material, that is just mean spirited anger directed at something most of them (from what I can read) has never given an honest chance.

Spivo said:

Wait, you haven't accounted for people who sort-of like the v3 system, but feel it's already at the tipping-point of component bloat. Don't waste so much time second-guessing people's motives for criticising v3; you'll drive yourself mad.

Spivo said:

Okay, let me replace 'condemn' with 'sneer at', but either way you're sidestepping the point. You asked a question and I gave you an answer. Whether you like it or not, you are just as guilty of the behaviour you're critical of. The thread was a mess already, but your comments just stirred it up even more, and it looked pretty deliberate to me.

Cheers

Sparrow

*sigh* One day I'll be able to quote here properly. I never have these problems anywhere else.

Cheers

Sparrow

flyingcircus said:

One of our FLGS (SF bokhandeln) here in Stockholm carries all the POD:s for Mansion of Madness (perhaps more for other games, but I haven’t looked). I imagine they will carry all for WFRP 3 also...

Vanaheim said:

My sentiments exactly. If these don't take away from additional supplements/campaigns, and are, in fact, just optional small additions (especially for $7), then I'm all for it!

James Sparrow said:

Yeah... blame me for stirring it up even more...

What ever.

And no, I was not "as" guilty. I commented a thread title, saying that was poorly chosen, if you wanted constructive serious discussion. So I flamed what I had seen, the title.

The OP of the mentioned thread, made a title concerning something he had no clue of at the time. He did not ask wether it was going CCG, he said it was CCG.

So... I "flame" something I have seen, and he something he's never seen. Can you see the difference...?

And finally, I never "flamed" it as such, I only flamed it IF the intention was to create a serious discussion.

Spivo said:

So you're telling me that you can't see the similarity between what you call his flaming something he's only seen in a package and you sneering at him and others when you've only read the title but not the substance of the posts?

Either way, even if you were justified, the manner in which you went about it seemed calculated to wind people up from the very start. Your opening sentence:

Well, I kinda expected this new product to get the wfrp grognards in a feeding frenzy.

That was actively provocative. The opening line of your next post:

Please, before you make yourself look like a clown, check your original thread title.

The clown comment is also actively provocative. And then we have:

And yes, discussing 3rd edition here is pointless, because people like you can be certain to expres Sancity and Naturalness of the superiority of 1st/2nd edition, and how awesome those two editions were, and how 3rd edition is the bastard son, who doesn't deserve to be called anything relating to Warhammer.

And that is also actively provoctive, and the term "people like you" reads as contemptuous and hostile. The fact is, you didn't like the thread title and decided to start sneering without making any effort at all to look at the thread as a whole.

Cheers

Sparrow

James Sparrow said:

For what its worth I can see why Spivo reacted the way he did. The OP seems to be running a self-righteous crusade against FFG and 3ed ever since I started following the RPGnet boards, spreading half-truths and preconceptions and acting all innocent when people get riled up. And sometimes people try not to let him get away with it. I doubt the thread would have ended how it did if the OP had displayed a more civil approach in the past.

I usually hate when forums derail into personal flamewars. But I admit this time it somehow gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

C'mon guys. We're all allies here I tend to like having all of your comments no matter how wrong you all compared to my commanding, ever-know-it-all opinion . Don't let it get 'wierd' around here (like Austin Powers wierd when Dr. Evil slept with Frau Farbissina).

jh

Emirikol said:

While I can easily just stop reading whichever particular thread that annoys me I too would prefer if you could could leave the Rpg.net flames at Rpg.net. I really see no need to continue here....

Imho/ymmw/etc

Treehorn said:

Except that treehugging octopus doesn't actually like v1 or v2 very much - he used a different system for the Warhammer setting, IIRC. So Spivo railing against him for being an angry v1/v2 grognard is a little misplaced.

Mattias said:

Thanks for this news. Mattias can You contact them and ask if they will have it? And if yes are they sending also to other Euroean countries? Thanks in advance.

PS. I would love to have it as soon as possible.

Has someone got it already? I would like to hear more about this expansion.

Can someone make a litte spoiler of the cards? How many of them are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th Rank? What are the 3 rules cards and what are the two equipment cards? Maybe a photo of the content? That would be great.

Vanaheim said:

Yep, I would lose interest if actual adventures and world setting books halted and all that got released were cards. But if books continue to be released then PoD is no problem. As a non US resident I'll be seeking an economical resaler, online or otherwise.

Couldn't agree more about the need for good business strategy, even an agile company like Pelgrane Press has a print run sweet spot of only ~3000.

Spivo said:

I'm sure you don't feel bad about it, but if you do, don't. The OP has been beating down on 3rd edition in every thread I've seen him in, and has been "never going to play this game again!" for the best part of a year. To me it looked like he created the thread title to elicit a negative response and then cried foul when he got it.

Well that was pretty quick...

So now the question is, will we continue to see a series of rapid releases in POD form at the expense of boxed supplements? Or will we see a stronger focus on printed adventures? That would be cool.

*Blatantly ignoring the above discussion, just want to the original tangent.*