Hello all,

I know there are some topics about that outside there. I even listened to the podcast. But I wanted to know if you are using any sort of wide-accepted house rule. What follows is some thinking I did regarding the subject.

The problem I have, as many I guess, is the capacity of PC's and NPC's to cover any desired distance in a single round. Since in WFRP 3rd ed both, the duration of a combat round and the abstrac distance unit (or range increment a stated in the corel rules pg 52) are not defined, it is difficult to set any rule about how many abstract distance divisions a PC or a NPC can "reallistically" cover in one round.

But actually this is not true at all because the distances in 3rd ed are indeed defined. The distance is defined by the reach of weapons like crossbows or pistols where the strengh of the wielder is not a variable.

Following this, I took from WFRP 2nd ed the range of a crossbow as a standard of distance, which in terms of the 2nd ed are: short 0 to 30 yards and long 31 to 60 yards (extreme would be in that case 61 to 120 yards, but does not mater for the case). In WFRP 3rd ed it costs 1 movement manoueuvre (from now on MM) to move from close to medium, 2 to move from medium to long, and three to move from long to extreme, which makes a total of 6 MM to move from close to extreme i.e to cover 61 yards. It follows naturally then to take as a distance unit for WFRP 3rd ed (or range increment) the distance of 10 yards. This is just an example, in my games I set that extreme range starts at 61 yards but it does not really matter if it is 61, 69, 103.5 or whatever, extreme range starts where the crossbow (powder weapon etc.) says it starts, you need only to define extreme range for a crossbow and dived it by 6 to get the range increment.

So, after all this rambling of mine, back to the original question. How much can cover a human, orc, beastmen? how much can cover a horse, troll, giant?

Reading the posts and from previous WFRP editions, it will fit that PCs or NPCs roughly fast as a human (orcs, elfs, skavens, beastmen, dwarfs... ) would be albe to spend a maximum of 2 or 3 MM (3 for exemple if they forego their action, optional rule appearing somewhere, creature guide, master toolkit, I cannot recall now). That is, they can cover two or three range increments.

But then, what about faster or larger creatures? Horses, Dragons, Giants, Steeds of Slaanesh, trolls... In my opinion in the same time span, they should be able to move more, in the sense of covering a longer distance, and suffer less fatigue as compared to a human.

Regarding the subject of spending less fatigue, the Swift and Fast abilities from 3rd ed do the job nicely. But which would be the limitation of range increments?

I would say (again taking the crossbow and the 2nd ed stats for creatures) that trolls and the like (M6 creatures in 2nd ed) would have to be able to cover 3 to 4 range increments in a single round, while horses and the like (M8 creatures in 2nd ed) would have to be able to cover 5 to 6 range increments in a single round. Finally, fast flying creatures like disks of Tzeentch, dragons and so should be able to cover any range increment in a single raound (actually for what matters, 6 means any).

Well, that was a long text, thumbs up if you reached here. I guess after all this rambling my question is:

Is there a consensus about that? an official house rule most of you are following?

or is more like "I don't care about realism! The rules are good as they are and humans, horses and whatever, they just move all they want"

Cheers and thanks for reading and may be answering.

In my grid house anyone using more than two maneuvers for movement can't attack. That said fatigue can easily become a problem if characters sprint around all the time.

Gallows said:

Does it mean you do not differentiate between fast (horses, discs of Teentch) and slow (human, orc....) NPC's?

An idea of mine (which I haven't applied yet) is to houserule that one movement manouver ("mm") translates to 20-30 metres (not sure), but only for some reason the exact distance is somehow important.

That means you can cover (without spending extra fatigue) 20-30 m plus one action (attack), or when using an additinal manouver for that rounds action (so no attack this round) 40-60 m per round.

That would translate the 6 "mm" from close to extreme range to 120-150m, which would also fit quite nicely to the weaponranges from WFRP2.

It might get unrealistic if PCs keep spending 3+ extra fatigue on movement (new worldrecord in 100m anyone?)

I think about that if it happens. Two ideas that spring to mind: Simply allow only so much additional movement fatigue per round or roll an extra black or purple die per extra fatigue. More fatigue, wounds or critical wounds might result or the PC might fall, etc.

You always can allow faster/bigger creatures to have one free "mm" per round or that they can cover more ground per "mm" (30-40m for example).

Yepesnopes said:

I use the same rule. I house ruled that you get 1 extra movement maneuver to use if on horseback and can still attack.

jh

Yepesnopes said:

RAW give horses an extra maneuver and I do the same for other fast creatures. I don't change the movement rate at all. Standard maneuver is four squares and fast moving npc just get extra free movement maneuvers.

I only allow one move during manoeuver, if you what more you need to use the preform a stunt card.

LoveSkylark said:

Yeah I thought about that option too, but I can see it adding a lot more die rolls to the game, so I'll save the stunts for those crazy things.

I was thinking to house rule a limit on the amount of manoeuvres. After reading your posts I decided to rule the following:

- A single Creature /PC is entitled to a maximum of 2 movement manoeuvres per combat turn.
- A Creature /PC can forego his Action for a manouvre, increasing then if desired the maximum of movement manoeuvres in a single combat turn by 1 (i.e. up to 3 for normal creatures and PC’s).
- Creatures with the Swift trait see their maximum of movement manouvres they can perform in a single combat turn increased by 1 (i.e. to a maximum of 3 or up to a maximum of 4 if they forego their Action).

I think in essence is very similar to what Gallows and Emirikol are doing.

There is though one more thing. In my games I have modified some creature cards so they have both the Swift and the Fast traits.

I always use the simple creature/npc cards for all my NPCs. I then just put a small post it note on the npc card with any modifiers (like +1 TO, swift, wp skill +1, soak +2).

These are great ideas. I've always run my campaign kind of loose and dirty, with discussion amongst players helping to sway how things go - you know, 'I dont think a dwarf could outrun a wolf', or "seducing that waitress whilst riding past on a horse is fast even for you," but with extra's for good roleplaying, silly voices and chocolate biscuits. However, a new players joined a while ago, and while he's great at the roleplaying, he seems to want a bit more structure in things, so I'm going to adopt these rules pretty much wholesale. Thanks!

Yepesnopes said:

Interesting !

I rather like that my players will choose to run super fast and thus gain Fatigue... The ebb and flow of Fatigue is a very interesting part of the game IMO.

I want my battles to start off very hard and violent, as in real life. Quickly though, combatants will exhaust themselves and be forced to slow don.

The actual rule I would use would be to permit NPCs to gain one wound if they do nothing for one round and at each rally step. Since Fatigue converts into wounds for NPCs, that would simply represent the NPC catching his breath. An assess the situation of sorts.

Where I have a problem is when combat transforms into a chase. How do you implement Fatigue in a chase ? The RAW example for a chase uses a progress tracker. I would like to have Athletics have an impact on movement, since it will during a chase...

Maybe rule that one can use a maximum of 2 Move Manœuvres per round + 1 per training level in Athletics ? (Thus a max of 5?)