So, I am wondering, not as much from an RPG standpoint (because Human is mostly what we play, so I get that), but a fluff one, why is it that the Ruinous Powers of Chaos can only hold sway over humans? This is an issue I've often had with the 40K fluff. Yeah, Chaos has daemons aplenty, and numerous human Cultists at their service, and even a large percentage of the Space Marines said "screw the Emperor, and all we were indoctrinated to believe, lets serve Chaos!", but Humanity is but one race of many in the universe, and the forces of the 4 Gods seem to pretend that the rest don't even exist.

If I was Khorne, I'd be looking at humans, then looking at orks, and I would say "get me some of them greenskins". They fight, they are built to fight, they love to fight, and they can shrug off more damage than most other creatures I can name, plus they breed like mad, like to collect skulls and trophies, and on, and on, and on. Tyranids are the greatest threat the galaxy has ever faced, potentially; a massive force, completely bent on consuming everything, able to breed quick, absorb punishment, and resilient to many means one might use to eradicate "pests". They can't be intimidated, frightened, or given to diplomacy. If I were Nurgle, I'd see them as quite the wave of entropy, a force that could tear things down, and leave nothing behind.

So, why do the Chaos Gods seem to just 'settle" for Humans? For Orks, I don't like the idea that they already have two gods. If Slaanesh could wipe out the entire pantheon of Eldar deities, and he was newborn, and is the weakest of four gods, then one would think that the Wargod Khorne could topple two stupid Ork gods, who may or may not even exist, if not impersonate one of them, and trick the Orks to serve. If powerful, refined, well trained Space Marines can fall, the Orks should have little hope. The Nids have a bit more resilience, with their Hive Mind, and Shadow in the Warp, but I could see Nurgle eroding that defense, over time, and getting in. There's little bits of Genestealer Cults falling to Chaos, but I don't even know if that's still canon, and would think Chaos could do more.

Tau are rather resistant to Chaos, too, and barely sign in the warp at all. The Eldar have been touched by Slaanesh, but none would consort with him now, minus the foolish Dark Eldar, and Necrons have no souls, and so no value to Chaos.

Thus, what GOOD reason is there why Chaos doesn't dig its claws into some other, maybe better choices of servants? Why does practically every other race have a lame, built-in defense against these enemies, leaving Humans as the only viable prey for the predations of the warp? Okay, thanks much.

Many xenos species are/have been under the sway of the chaos gods. But these species were not numerous enough to really pose much of a problem for the Imperium of man and many have been wiped out of existance.

Worshiping chaos is kinda like taxes. The only way to truly get a good amount of power from it is to have a ton of people doing it. Sure having one really powerful guy worship you is great, but unless he is converting others beneath him its just a tiny drop in a very large ocean. Now if you have an entire planet of billions, or even better a whole sector of trillions, all that adds up to a pretty large amount of power.

Thats why the chaos gods focus on humanity. They have massive numbers and are fairly easy to corrupt. This is also why the Imperium is so strict, to resist the lure of chaos requires strong willpower from its leaders, things like compashion and 'understanding' lead to openings a chaos corrupter can use to turn you. And unflagging obedience and resolute faith from the teeming masses, if you are assured of the Emperor's position and afraid of what happens if you disobey the commands of the Imperium it becomes more difficult to corrupt you.

Orks don't care for chaos. Really they don't. They like to fight, loud noises, going fast and that's about it. And they've already got 2 gods of their own for these things. What would a chaos god give an ork that he'd want and couldn't get himself?

One of the things about the Horus Heresy that was so bad for the universe, and not just the Imperium, was that it turned not only large swathes of humanity to the service of the Dark Gods, but also the Space Marines, who up until that point had been merily curb-stomping their way accross the galaxy, without being stopped (for the most part, there were races like the Mega-Arachnids of Murder who gave them considerable trouble, but largely the Astartes were assured victory in the long run).

This gave the Chaos Gods the powerbase they needed to become a threat to the Galaxy.

As for other gods. In the case of the Eldar, we could infer that the general degeneration of Eldar society included a sidelining of most, if not all, of their Gods (the new Dark Eldar Codex goes in to it somewhat, mentioning the contempt they feel toward the fallen pantheon). With the exception of Khaine and the Laughing God, they would have been all quite weak, and even Khaine probably wasn't at peak performance levels. Moving on, there are 'Chaos Eldar' though they've become kinda like the Necrons/C'tan before they got their own Codex, relegated only to the occasional mention, and pretty much left obscure and ignored. Not to mention that the fluff put them on the Crone Worlds, which are all located inside the Eye of Terror.

While the Orks are another matter entirely. While far from being a hive mind like the Tyranids, they are still a gestalt psychic race and numerous to boot. So Gork and Mork are going to be plenty strong, especially since they're both effectively the same god, of the same **** thing (cunning brutality and brutal cunning). Furthermore, because of their uniquely psychic-ish nature, Orks are effectively immune to the corrupting effects off Chaos (though more correctly, the Warp).

And the Tau aren't inherently resistant to the Warp, but unfortunately the facts have been warped by the telephone that is the internet, and now that's becoming quite the popular fanon belief. What they are, is small. In the Warp they have little presence. If you were to imagine a psyker to be a great bonfire, shining in the shifting miasma of energy that is the immaterium, and a regular human was a torch, then you could liken one of the Tau to a single match. And because they're so 'small', they don't really attract the attention of its denizens, and don't really understand its working as well, which is why their warp drive technology is behind the Imperium's.

It's not just about killing another races God's, the race has to actively take an interest in the patron entity too.

Edit: Missed the nids, but as you touched upon yourself, their Hivemind likely provides them with the same measure of protection as the Orks. But the main point still stands. The Chaos Gods can't just go "I want dat!" and have their demands met. They need an in somehow, and their foot is already in the door regarding humanity. It wasn't easy to get to that point, I can't imagine they feel like trying again with a whole new race, especially when humanity seems so much more pliable than many others.

Also, fun fact. Apparently Tzneetch's 'end game' scenario is just to keep the current status quo going -forever-, because he finds it really entertaining. Makes sense, as the god personifying change it doesn't really fit for him to have a final ending planned.

Blood Pact said:

True that, but don't forget the Tau have no psykers either, no psyker gene in the entire race. Which is one reason for their differing warp travel, as well as a lack of interest by chaos.

There are any number of 'minor' xeno races that worship Chaos. The (now-extinct) Yu'Vath from the Calixis Sector fluff were Chaos worshippers, and in the first Eisenhorn novel, there is an alien species (I forget their name) who worship Chaos, to name two.

Fluffwise, half the backstory of the 40k universe was created to put the Humans at the top. The Humans control bits of the galaxy from edge to edge, and no other race (currently) can claim that. They're the center of 40k. That's why there is a focus.

As for humans falling, it's a classic story of humans and their corruptability. Why did Frodo carry the ring to Mordor? Because he and his race was the most pure and innocent, and the most resistant to its corrupting power- man was the most vulnerable, giving into vices and promises of power. The Marines in the Horus Heresy didn't just up and throw in the towel; they were lured, tricked, and the Chaos Gods preyed upon their vices, tempting them. It also didn't hurt that each of the Primarchs had been kidnapped at birth and was already kind of suspect. So humans, with the varied points of view, motivations, and emotions make fantastic pals. Who better than a fast breeding race that controls the galaxy from tip to tail, loves power and promises of things like immortality, and has psychic mutations that burn like beacons in the warp?

Nids have a hive mind and shadow in the warp, Tau have the greater good, Eldar have the 'been there done that and lost over half our population because of it' defense, Orks have...well they're 'ard 'eaded and only follow other greenskins. If you pick one of those races you may get a chunk, a cell, a platoon worth of servants, but turning whole or half a race is not an easy task. There are old fluff bits on orks and eldar falling to chaos, but not in great numbers. Humans are, as far as I can see, a tastier snack (other chaos worshipping non-main-army races not withstanding).

Also, the book Realm of Chaos really seems to imply that mankind was primarily responsible for setting the warp off kilter and gave birth to the first three Chaos Gods in the first place. One sentence reads: "Inevitably, the process of civilisation severed mankind's links with the natural forces of the warp, and created new ones based upon his own character. In time, these disharmonious forces were to grow into the Chaos Powers."

Charmander said:

Followed by the Eldar giving birth to Slaanesh.

Lucrosium Malice said:

Quite true. It still heavily implies that humans have a very close relationship to the powers, and the Powers name the Emperor as their most significant enemy, and the greatest threat to their survival and growth.

I think the nature of Slaanesh's birth also explains why the remaining Eldar, (Eldar and Dark Eldar alike) are resistant to the influences of Chaos. They're the survivors, those who didn't get eaten or give in. The Dark Eldar culture is largely built around avoiding Slaanesh and being eaten by it, and the Eldar's new version of afterlife is focused on assembling enough power to topple it. Compare that to humans, who hide the existence of Chaos to most of it's members, and given humanities willingness to kill each other for personal gain perhaps rightly so (and if the Emperor's theories were correct, persuading enough humans to deny the existance of Chaos might even cripple them).

venkelos said:

Common misconception. The Dark Eldar aren't Chaos-aligned at all. They hate the Chaos Gods, Slaanesh especially, just as much as Craftworld, Exodite, and Corsair Eldar. Their whole '**** and torture to eat souls' thing just makes them similar to the Dark Prince of Pleasure. They don't work with or for Chaos at all. Remember, the Harlequins, Eldar who actively work and warn against Slaanesh, still work with the Dark Eldar from time to time.

10,000 years ago, after the fall of the Eldar...
Slaaneesh, the newly born Chaos God, leered slyly over his newest victim. All of these new races to explore and pervert! Oh what a joy! His Daemons had taken a new type of soul now, one of a very strange race. The large, green-skinned creature stood before him in his swirling domain of energy. It seemed somewhat startled and confused by this sudden change of environment, but quickly regained it's senses...
"Urk? Warrzdiz? Where'z me ladz? Wot da zog iz dis 'ere place?"
The Chaos God grinned with excitement. Oh, this one would be such fun to torture. It seemed to lack any kind of reproduction methods, so it would be hard to create any kind of sexual perversion, but there were other ways...
"Oh, hello, my new pet. It seems that you have died, and your soul now belongs to...me."
The Ork stared at the thing before him. In his many years of fighting, Urgzod had never seen anything like this, but he'd be zogged before he let some silly big fing stand between him and his WAAAGH.
"Yooz let me git bak to da WAAAGH!!!"
"Oh, I'm sorry, I'm afraid I can't do that. You see, you are now my slave for all eterni..."
*SMASH!*
Urgzod grimiced, although smugly, as he watched the thing fall back from the force of his punch. That'd learn it...
"I'M GOIN' BAK TO DA WAAAGH!!!"
Slaaneesh glared at the creature. He was disgusted at how it did not recognize the GOD standing before it. But, still, he had to be mature. He didn't want his brothers Khorne, Nurgle, and that funny-named magic god (he could NEVER pronounce the name right) to think he was some kind of ameture...
"No, no, I'm afraid I can't do that. You see, you are now in my realm. You have died, you see, and your soul was taken by MY Daemons. So, you will now do my bi..."
*KRUNCH*
Slaaneesh stopped speaking abruptly as the pain reached him. He had been kicked in his godly balls! The nerve! After the pain passed, he grabbed the greenskin by the neck, and began yelling...
"LOOK HERE, you insulent little bast..."
*CRACK*
The thing had punched him in the nose!
"Are yooz sendin' me bak to da WAAAGH!, or do I 'ave ta git even more up kloze an' perzonal wiv yoo?"
Slaaneesh fumed. He would not have this go on. The greature growled at him again...
"Lookz, yooz, if I ain't bak in dat WAAAGH reel soon, I'm gunna 'ave ta git ugly wiv yoo, see? Now, yooz..."
*BZAP*
Urgzod rubbed his throbbing head. Seemed like he was back in the battle! Although a bit disoriented, he headed back to melee, slugga blasting and yelling at the top of his Orky lungs....
Back in the Warp, Slaaneesh was furious. He would NEVER take another one of those thing's souls again, as long as he was the god of Pleasure. But, he didn't want any of the others one-up-ing him. And he didn't want his brothers to know of this humiliation. So, he devised a most cunning plan...
And so the rumor spread quickly thoughout the Warp. An Ork's soul was best left to it's OWN gods to sort out. Why? Well, the god of Pleasure would never let anything about the truth to get out...
...
"Now, um, why was it that we don't eat these Ork thing's souls?" Khorne asked, rather puzzled. Tzeentch looked over at his brother god, rather annoyed.
"Geez, didn't Pervert-Boy tell you ten times? They taste bad. Real bad. Like daemon poo, but worse."
"Oh," Khorne said, still not totally convinced. "Well why don't we get Nurgle to try one? He'll do ANYTHING disgusting."
"I asked him. He doesn't like killing anyone else who's as green as he is."
"Oh."
And this state of affairs continues to this day...

((It was not me who wrote this but It might explain why chaos is not interested in orks, hahaha ))

Old Codex Deamon Hunters, you could create Nurgle Orks or Khorne Orks, as usual the ball got dropped by GW.

I have a short question that I've been thinking about for a little time and it is about the Crone Worlds inside the Eye of Terror. According to the limited fluff that I've read on the subject the Eldar on these worlds would be enslaved to Chaos and I was wondering if these mean that they would be serfs toiling for their masters' pleasure or would they actually be able to win recognition and favor from the Gods of Chaos like other followers of the Ruinous Powers. Because while I do not have any problem with the Eldar as a majority rejecting Chaos and doing so more successfully than the humans is not in any way a problem to be but I am a bit intrigued by the prospect of Eldars who follow the Chaos Gods and so would like to hear out on the possibility to have such things.

So it's not really that the Majority of Eldar refused chaos/slaanesh- most of them died when (s)he was born. The Crone worlds were consumed and all the Eldar souls in range were sucked into Slaanesh. Gone. So you have leftovers that are very motivated to not hang out with Chaos because they like having a soul.

But 40k is huge, and that doesn't mean that a few Eldar wouldn't strike a bargain with Chaos in order to try and prolong their lives or prevent their souls from being stolen- I imagine being soul-stone-less would be an interesting motivator.

The Crone Worlds are, as I understnad them, essentially the same as Daemon Worlds. So a Daemon Prince rules over them and gets to do what it wants, and if that means rewarding or using a Chaos Worshipping Eldar no one is going to stop him. Well, it IS chaos, so someone might, but it would be a good fight.

I see no reason why it wouldn't be exactly like with humans. A relatively small number of chapions, and hordes of worthless dregs who follow them.

For all the high and mighty preaching done by chaos worshippers, it's not really the path to freedom for the every man, where all are equal under the gods and capable of achieving the heights of Apotheosis. Just like the Imperium there's only a few at the top and everyone else under their thumb. That some underhive boot-lick might become a grand potentate of the Ruinous Powers some day is of little difference to the fact that he's one of the lucky few, among a mass of slaves who will go on to nothing better and then have their souls devoured once the strength of their flesh is used up.

Charmander said:

I knew about the Fall and that Slaanesh took most of the Eldar as a snack and so I figured from the start that most Eldars on the Crone Worlds would've been dead and consumed by this point. However looking the Lexicanum article regarding the Crone Worlds you can read that there are Eldar slaves there under the rule of Chaos and trapped there since the Fall and I was a bit suprised by that as I was earlier lead to think that all the Eldar in the Eye of Terror area were consumed by Slaanesh. And that's the reason I asked so that wiser minds could bring me enlightenment on the issue.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crone_World

Blood Pact said:

With Chaos the 'everyman' has the chance to become exceptional through his own efforts, while within the Imperium you can generally only become exceptional through the decision of the grand bureaucracy. It's a difference.

Aye, indeed, a difference: instead of bootlicking an Imperial bureaucrat to get ahead, you gotta bootlick a demon prince. Wait...what was the difference again?

But to help out gurkhal: not all eldar got eaten by Slaanesh - the Craftworlders all got away, as did the ancestores of the dark eldar....seems perfectly cromulent that others would also have survived and, without an escape route like a mighty craftworld or the webway, they'd be stuck, enlsaved, meat for the gods, and so forth. The croneworlders are the descendents of the poor unfortunates who had no escape...they get to live out their lives in utter hopelessness, cause they have no safety nor succor for their souls......lives of misery climaxing in the death of their souls when their mortal coil perishes and Slaanesh feeds upon their psychic essence...

Depending on how far back your 40K lore stretches or what you read...

Chaos can and has been able to corrupt ANYTHING during the history of the (game) universe. Humanity is just the most commonly presented format we see in the published products. Chaos corrupted Orks, Eldar, Random Xenos 'X' and even Necrons have happened. In fact from a GMing PoV you really can have anything chaos you want still. But, from the in universe "back story" ect, the Chaos Gods are very closely tied with Humanity and since the Imperium is the only really "unified" megalithic society we get to see in the 40K universe, Humanity is what Chaos influences the most in the fiction. Also, do not forget, that the Imperium is not GOOD but utterly LAWFUL and ORDERED in it's application and philosophies, not to mention STATIC and STAGNANT. All of these things are the antithesis of CHAOS. Any attempt to alter the Status Quo (whatever that may be on a given world) to move outside the established order or just to lift ones self out of ones station is an act of CHAOS and those that truly accept this fact and make the deals with the Dark Gods and Ruinous Powers and push the envelope may becomes "masters" of their own destinies and become Champions of Chaos or even immortal Daemon Princes. Ironically, yes that does mean you end up serving someone else, but then the Ruinous Powers are called Ruinous for a reason (although Champions of Chaos and Daemon Princes lead pretty unlimited and bountiful existences and it's not like you get direct mandates from Khorne every Tuesday).

Moirdryd said:

True. I get my mandates from Khorne on the 2nd Wednesday of every month.

Its a tragedy that the Imperium treats any protests so harshly. If a Nobles greed means you are starving what do you do. Do nothing and starve to death or protest and get shot. No wonder so many humans turn to Chaos.

The Empire treats things differently depending on where you go. Planetary governors hae a lot of leeway in what they do to their planet, provided the planet meets their tithe. Some are brutal dictators, others are more benevolent.

From my understanding, Chaos is a little more insidious than the local gang that offers a poor downtrodden soul a place to feel at home. And 'so many humans' is relative- humans are depicted as the most populous of the major xenos races, so even if every race had 3% of its population fall to Chaos, humans would still compose most of the non-daemon forces.

Sorry, it just always seemed to me that everything Chaos was Human. From the tabletop, Cultists are Human, CSMs are, well Space Marines, who were once Human, and then they have Daemons. Nothing in their armies ever looked like Chaos borrowed from any other parts of the universe, and every other major power had some convenient excuse for how Chaos basically couldn't touch them, which always smacked of unnecessary to me, and stifling the growth of Chaos; if they defeated Man tomorrow, apparently, they could only bulldoze over the other races after that. I can accept that there were other little snippets around, most that I was unaware of, and some possibly already eradicated by the Imperium, but it just always seemed that, because our story is the Imperium vs the Universe, Chaos just bothers with the Imperium, leaving teeming hordes of other things they could like to have unnoticed.

And, as an aside, I still think Khorne would love a batch of uber-tough, none-to-bright, self-repairing, fast-breeding, material-bound, combat-ready Greenskins for Christmas, and his love of violence, trophy collections, and might makes right attitude would be right up the Ork's alley, if they weren't too stupid to notice. Khornite Orks ++ Shivers !!!++

IMHO you can't tell the Gods of Chaos what they can or can't do but you can make it sooo rare that you don't need to make the minatures.

In the fluff thats out there Orks often get manipulated into doing things that help the forces of Chaos advance their Agenda. Then again Imperial Inquisitors have used the same strategy as have the Eldar. Orcs were created by the Old Ones to fight the Star Vampires (I stand to be corrected on this)

The common theme as far as greenskins go is that they are immune to the lure of Chaos. They are the proverbial spanner in the works of Chaos. By the Dark Gods Tzeentch must hate the greenskins

One of the things I love about the way the Orks are depicted in some of the latest fluff.

When there's a character who comes off as too smart for their own good, they'll have the Orks show up to mess with them. Like that Necron Lord who absolutely -hates- them. And Lady Malys (remember the diversion ended up running off with the Archeotech she wanted). I'm sure there's others I can't think of right now, and hope there will be more in the future.

Poor Orkses...

They've lost so much of their backstory to the revisionists at GW. Back in 2e, when they actually wrote flavorful codexes there were these two hardcover army books for the Orks. In the Freebooters book you could actually hire Warphead Weirdboys (corrupted by the Warp), as well as Khorne-possessed Ork Boyz. So anyone who tells you Orks can't be affected by the Ruinous Powers simply doesn't know the full history, or is rolling with the current iteration which ignores their previous glorious state.