keltheos said:

So anyone who tells you Orks can't be affected by the Ruinous Powers simply doesn't know the full history, or is rolling with the current iteration which ignores their previous glorious state.

Well, when you have to get material approved by GW, then their current preferences have to define what you're writing. Ork Freebooterz in Rogue Trader can't gain Corruption because GW said so. You may disagree as vocally as you like, but that's the current direction of the official background, and thus you won't gain any official material supporting the idea of Chaos Orks.

And honestly, I agree with it. Having a Chaos version of everything else just feels tacky, and denies Chaos a defining 'feel' of its own beyond being "X with spikes and daemons". It also runs into the problem of "it's all the fault of Chaos!", which takes something away from the setting as a whole.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

keltheos said:

So anyone who tells you Orks can't be affected by the Ruinous Powers simply doesn't know the full history, or is rolling with the current iteration which ignores their previous glorious state.

Well, when you have to get material approved by GW, then their current preferences have to define what you're writing. Ork Freebooterz in Rogue Trader can't gain Corruption because GW said so. You may disagree as vocally as you like, but that's the current direction of the official background, and thus you won't gain any official material supporting the idea of Chaos Orks.

And honestly, I agree with it. Having a Chaos version of everything else just feels tacky, and denies Chaos a defining 'feel' of its own beyond being "X with spikes and daemons". It also runs into the problem of "it's all the fault of Chaos!", which takes something away from the setting as a whole.

Like much of GW material, none inclusion doesn't nescesarily mean complete removal. They like to have things rear their ugly (or gorgously scultped) heads again, often in forge world.

What it immediately means is that A, they can't support the model range, B they don't have room in the current codex. When Ork's had chaos mobz they litterally had 3 x 600+ page books (ah happy times).

I agree with them and you and GW regarding the corruption for the simple reason that they are already corrupt, there's nothing noble or good about them that needs to be perverted and are often more chaotic than the CSM posterboys. IMHO though that doesn't preclude them from being chaotic for a chaos power though, unlikely thought it might be.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Well to be fair, even back in the old ork books for 2nd ed 40k they pointed out that the instances of orks worshipping Chaos were rare, the orks are so single-minded that there's very little room for chaos to exploit their desires or worries.. Even then it was more than just 'orks with spikes' eg the daemon-possessed warphead is naturally resistant to domination and so the daemon is effectively 'trapped' in the mind of the ork rather than the ork becoming a meat puppet the way a human psyker would.

Frankly, I don't think we lose anything at all by taking Chaos Orks and throwing it in the trash can with the other pieces of old fluff, like Squats. For reasons that N0-1 has mentioned, and others. It's certainly not some big loss of a deep and compelling part of the fluff.

Orks being corrupted to Chaos is not a 'deep and compelling part of the fluff'? If Chaos can't corrupt simple, brutal orks, then just how scary can it be? Now, I adhere to the position that the Old Ones made orks to be immune to Chaos in large waaagh! groups, but individually? That's a different matter. Chaos warbands have chaos orks; ork freebooterz have Chaos allies - this all seems perfectly cromulent in the grimdark, no? Why trash a good, viable, logical, story-enhancing device? Orkses is everywhere, just like Chaos (and, soon, just like Tyranids...).

Chaos only picking on humans is simple hubris on the part of the authors, and the fanbase deserves better than that, thanx.

Zappiel said:

I don't look at it this way. Clearly, the Imperium is meant as the closest thing to a 'point of view' for players, by virtue of their (relative) humanity. Xenos like the Tau, Eldar, and Orks are a bit harder to relate to due to the whole alien psychology thing, with Tyranids and Necrons being even harder to understand for a human mind. Chaos adds another level of difficulty to the picture. By making Chaos predominantly human-oriented, understanding the thought processes and psychology of the servants of the Ruinous Powers circumvents the issues of the alien mind.

That's my take on it, anyway.

ex Zappiel said:

And my interpretation is that it's exactly because Orks are so simple and brutal that they have been virtually untouched by Chaos. The Ruinous Powers can offer them nothing that they can't get on their own. And all Orks want is a good fight.

But really this is only half of it. Orks, in a vaguely similar way to the Tyranids, project their own gestalt psychic field. Greater concentrations and simply powerful individuals cause the field to have even greater power. The simple existence of this gives them an additional immunity to the wiles of the Chaos Gods.

Much like the Tyranids, who have never been said to fall to Chaos themselves (Genestealers Cultists aren't 'true' Tyranids by any stretch), take this to a higher level and are able to mess up the Warp not because they cause it to still, but because it's flooded with the back-and-forth contstant telephathic link of millions, if not billions, of creatures.

Chaos isn't picking on humans, that's been made quite clear over the course of this thread. And noone is stopping you from having whole Nurge fueled Waaagh!'s if you want to. But by cannon, Orks are so resistant to Chaos there's probably no more than a couple thousand of them in the entire Galaxy, even though they are at least as numerous as humanity.

But speaking just for myself, I don't think it adds anything to the setting to make Orks interested in Chaos. About the only thing I could think of that'd be different about a Khorne devoted Ork would be he's red instead of green! All the other Gods would be distant seconds, even Nurgle because Orks don't need him to be super durable, they'll survive decapitation if you can stitch their head back on within about an hour! And they're immune to most normal diseases.

Zappiel said:

I think Orks tend to be resistent to chaos's influence because there's not much chaos can offer them. There are no deep dark orky desires waiting to be fulfilled, becuase they are already being fulfilled on a daily basis. Ork's simple brutality makes chaos less attractive to them not more. Khornate orks are the most likely, but what are we talking about, an ork who's comsumed by bloodlust and the desire to smash things, not really seeing the difference.

In fact does Khorne even need to corrupt the orks their doing what he'd want anyway? I can't remember exactly but don't the runious powers only actually need their linked behaviousr to be occuring rather than for them to be specificalliy devoted to them for them to reap the benefit?

As others have said there have been Khornate storm boys and chaois warband freebooters in print before, but IIRC these werealwasy exceptional cases (same as the ork genestealer cults) not regular occurances. I alway go with the answer that in a setting as big as this one anything is possible, but some things are more likely than others.

Edit: and others have said it better already teech me to reply without reading the whole thread!