Melisandre and Storm's End

By DieMyDarling, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

I'm guessing this doesn't work, but I want it to work, so I'll ask.

Melisandre: Claim one additional power when you win dominance

Storm's End: If you win dominance, instead of claiming 1 power for your house you may claim 1 power each for 2 different Baratheon characters.

Can you use Storm's End's effect on the second power you claim for dominance, via Meli's ability, or can you only replace the first power you would claim, thereby nullifying Meli's effect entirely?

Bonus question: I have the Baratheon Iron Throne in play (You automatically win dominance). It doesn't appear to be a replacement effect, so I am curious whether I can trigger Daven Lannister's ability if I happen to have 4 more STR than the opponent when dominance comes around.

DieMyDarling said:

I'm guessing this doesn't work, but I want it to work, so I'll ask.

Melisandre: Claim one additional power when you win dominance

Storm's End: If you win dominance, instead of claiming 1 power for your house you may claim 1 power each for 2 different Baratheon characters.

Can you use Storm's End's effect on the second power you claim for dominance, via Meli's ability, or can you only replace the first power you would claim, thereby nullifying Meli's effect entirely?

Storm's End is a replacement effect, saying that instead of putting one power on your House, you get 1 each on 2 different characters. Mel is a passive effect triggered "when you win dominance." So if you have both in play, you replace the way you "normally" win dominance by taking 2 power, 1 one each of 2 characters when you resolve dominance. Then you get 1 additional power on your House (passively) for Mel. You effectively get a total of 3 power for winning dominance - 2 on characters, 1 on your House.

(If you don't believe Mel is a passive ability instead of a replacement effect, note that she does not use the word "instead" - the hallmark of replacement effects - and compare her wording to CS-Robert Baratheon - an FAQ example of a passive effect.)

DieMyDarling said:

Bonus question: I have the Baratheon Iron Throne in play (You automatically win dominance). It doesn't appear to be a replacement effect, so I am curious whether I can trigger Daven Lannister's ability if I happen to have 4 more STR than the opponent when dominance comes around.

On the flip side, let's say you have the Iron Throne, your opponent has Daven, and the dominance count is 0 (you) to 4 (your opponent). Your opponent CANNOT trigger Daven because The Iron Throne says the determination of dominance is that YOU win (by -4). So your opponent LOST dominance by 4, and Daven's play restrictions are not met. Essentially, if you have The Iron Throne, the ability on your opponent's Daven becomes useless because they cannot win, no matter the count.

End result - yes, you still look at the difference between your dominance counts for cards like Daven, even if the Iron Throne is out. The difference is that the win/loss part of Dominance (and Daven's play restrictions) is not determined by the count. It is determined by the card effect.

Sweet. Thanks for the answers.