With the streamlining and generally good reviews coming out for BC; Maybe it's time for FFG to consider a Dark Heresy "Revision" that would incorporate the many improvements that have come along since it was first published. So far I have loved all of the 40k games and each time they seem to get a little better as kinks are worked out. In it's favor, DH has some of the most developed background and colorful character types. Detracting from it are the numerous Clunky (Can you say Psykers?) and outdated rules that have been vastly improved by later versions of the game! What say you? If enough of us speak up maybe the designers will chime in. I for one would love to see the following:

Combat rewritten to BC Standard

Skills and career selection revamped to follow more current (Streamlined) process.

Psychic powers revamped to use the current system.

No changes to the DH monatary system. (Dark heresy is a "Street level" game and influence would not make sense for Acolyte level characters!)

Radwraith said:

I like DH. I know there are lots of people out there who don't, but I do.

Combat rewritten to BC Standard

I don't have a problem either way. There are good and bad aspects to both DH and BC combat.

Skills and career selection revamped to follow more current (Streamlined) process.

I do not like classless/leveless advancement structures. They lead to homogenized characters who are min/maxed to the hilt with no real distinction from each other. This leads to characters who are awesome in color and story but lackluster mechanically and players who try to win the game. Champions is the only classless/leveless game that I have played and thought was worth anything. Classless/Leveless works for superheros, little else in my opinion.

I really like the DW structure with multiple tables. Having a small core background list along with an archetype list and then being able to buy into or access additional tables is a format I would like to see expanded upon. I think they have been experimenting with this when they introduced the Cell Directives structure.

Psychic powers revamped to use the current system.

The fettered/push system is far too safe and ripe for abuse. It has no sense of dread and doom for using your powers like the DH system does. That being said the DH system does need tweaking. Refine the system, change from adding WP bonus to psy rating and things calm down a great deal.

No changes to the DH monatary system. (Dark heresy is a "Street level" game and influence would not make sense for Acolyte level characters!)

I agree. Scaveging, saving, and scraping buy at low to mid levels is just fun.

ItsUncertainWho said:

I actually agree with you about the classless/leveless thing. I was more talking about Revising the skills/talents (Such as Pilot/operator) and such in order to more align with their more current definitions. The Levelless (There are classes in BC) system is intended to be specific to chaos and should stay that way. The balancing factor in BC is how your choices will draw you to the embrace of a certain alignment and thus deny yourself other choices. The much more regimented life of an Imperial citizen is much better represented by the level based advancement in the other three systems.

Radwraith said:

actually i detest the leveling system in BC.

the rules in general feel flipped upside down, and for some reason the games i join in certain forums are obsessed with them. i personally enjoy dh rules, and have actually memorized alot of them. which is why changing over to new rules irritates me, and ive been called a munchkin because i like the base dh rules more than the bc rules. which is retarded.

whats more, people seem convinced in these circles that the black crusade book now overrides the dark heresy book for all rules applicable like automatic fire, scatter, unnatural attributes, etc etc. which is stupid. that means id have to buy the BC book to play the current version of DH. with no eratta theres no reason to believe that the BC book overrides anything. to be fair, its not that its disallowed to change the rules as you see fit since its your game and youre running it. but calling someone who likes the basic rules for dh a munchkin is just darn silly. and so is assuming that the DH rules are no longer valid.

As a GM I've tried to replace or supplement core DH rules with BC rules, but found, in the long run, doing so takes away from the "grim dark" of DH. The single biggest thing that bothers me with BC rules (combat) is the +10 bonus for a Standard Attack Action. There will always be players who min/max their characters, and this rules-obsequious bonus is frustrating…

Character styled as a sniper with BS 32, uses an Accurate Basic Weapon, uses a Full Action Aim for a bonus of +30, and then gets an additional +10 in the following round just for pulling the trigger. Nope. I don't agree.

I ditched BC rules, all of them, in my DH game, and if we switch games we switch systems, keeping each game self-contained.

Alekzanter said:

Aim

+10 bonus to hit as a Half Action or +20 to hit as a Full Action on
the character’s next attack, or target a specifi c body location.

Well for me weird is when you spray and pray and get +20 BS. Now everybody have autogun because full auto is the most accurate type of firing o_O. When you fire 1 bullet is easier to hit (+10) than full auto (-10).

We are using BC for our campaigne and we love almost everything and we are never going back to DH or RT (we didn't play DW). But it's your game and if you dont like BC rules it's ok. Have fun the way you like.

When used by properly trained soldiers burst fire is actually more likely to hit your target than anything except very carefully aimed shots. "Full-Auto" fire in Dark Heresy doesn't represent spraying wildly in the enemy's direction, but either a few carefully controlled short bursts, or a single longer (but still controlled) burst. In those cases simply putting more lead in the air actually does increase your chance to hit. Just spraying randomly in a direction is more like Supressive Fire.

The problem with Dark Heresy is not that it does increase your chance to hit. The problem is that it does this as well as making many more shots hit thet the target . Burst fire should make it more likely that you hit, but you should still only hit with a round or two unless you have been very lucky. Personally I would return to the mistake they had in the original printing of Dark Heresy where they onl;y got bonus hits for every two degrees of success (like semi auto). There could also be an argument for reducing the bonus (maybe to +10%), but that is more problematic.

Coincidentally, there is also the matter that in the original rules Full Auto is a full action, so when compared to a single shot made from a stationary position it only has a bonus of +10, as the player could aim for a half action first with single shot.

What really needs work is semi-auto, as aside from those weapons that don't have full auto, there is little reason to use Semi-auto.

I just house ruled to swap the hits/DoS mechanics of semi and auto fire, and that has worked wonders.

Auto = higher chance to hit, but lower chance of hitting multiple times

Semi = lower chance to hit, but more likely to hit multiple times

It worked quite well for me.