I am really happy with the release of of SSU Troops. It would had been great if FFG had released an Army-Pack for the SSU, but it is fine as it is.

And about the look of the chopper, try to find some pictures of the Kamov-26 or Mil-4 and you will see a familar sight.

Also take a look at the Polikarpov-16 Fighter.

Well, I for one will kneel before our new communist overlords...

I like how the NKVD troopers are painted in the amobea camo. I will certainly try to paint them like that too. I wonder if/when the SSU gets some Armour 3 infantry too.

Anyway, that selection of figures (yes, even the helo) is a great way to start the SSU line.

Now that we are getting the fliers rules, I hope the Rocketen truppe figures will come soon too. I've been waiting to add them to my Fallschrimjaegers.

Quite frankly, I'm sick with negative comments too. It happens that those comments are usually silly too.

Bendy parts on minis? Just apply a little time with a hairdryer (idea taken from another's member blog) and reshape it. Resin miniatures have exactly the same problem (you fix it with warm water) and you don't get to see much negative comments about the quality of certain makers' minis... Are those other minis "characterful and beautiful"? If you can look at a freak anatomy with oversized heads, atrophied thighs, abnormal torsos and arms, over long and bulky weapons and goofy expressions and still see a beautiful miniature, undoubtedly you'll be disappointed with a more human looking and proportioned figure and equipment (and DT minis have enough of an oversized material selection, but it helps on recognition). Seriously, DT figurines own those other minis by much, look much better and are much more characterful in their "realist" way than those overdimensioned freaky miniatures (which I own in heaps; I know what I am talking about).

Goofy looking chopper? It may seem so, but apart from Dakkon426 wisely pointed out, it looks not much different from the Kamov. Also look at which aiwqass said (excellent references!). Ranters are comparing it to "normal" tail rotor helicopters, but it is most obviously a coaxial double rotor machine, so no need for a tail rotor and for an extended tail neither. Also it seems to have a kind of jet propulsing it from the rear so it would make for a (relatively) quick, stable vehicle. Its quad (not triple, it may seem so because of the perspective, but the description says it's quad, and if you look carefully you'll see the middle gun is a bit thicker because you could actually be looking at two guns, one behind and a little bit over the other, to say so) machine guns are a thing to be careful of, that's for sure. And the volunteer squad will be menacing too, introducing an enemy force right inside your playing area. It won't need to have heavy armament to be a sure pain, and having it would be both against its nature (just as little weight on the chopper as you can bring on, thanks; we need to pull off and fly this thing after all) and against play balance. A couple links FYI: www.electric-rc-helicopter.com/article/coaxial.php and www.helicopterpage.com/html/dol.html

SSU units are painted examples with a look that is very close to historical Soviet Union (and Com Chinese) units; the colours are not the same as allies ones although they may seem alike. It's normal because you won't see much difference on khaki tones and after all that's the way they dressed then; even in modern times it's difficult to tell soldiers of different states apart if not looking at their equipment. When you've trained the eye, it won't be so. Also the difference can be highlighted if you use more "typical" colours. So Axis units would have a greenish gray (feldgrau, although different units wore different shades of gray or khaki, like the Luftwaffe, the SS or the DAK), Americans would dress in (olive) green, (and light khaki and brown combinations, specially for an early war or winter dress) and Soviets (and Chinese) in a brownish khaki (with brown and blue thrown in). All in all, enough difference.

What I can't understand is messing with the company policies. My support for DUST here, as I see a very appreciated customer oriented and careful policy here. In a short span of time we have a comprehensive line for two of the major factions with the third being put on equal terms on forced march. You will be able to play with each side in little time, with each of their units covered and new, exciting ones coming out in reasonable wait periods. In the meanwhile you can still bulk out your preferred (or only) force, and build a background for it. Now we have "basic" troops in assault, battle and support versions, command squads, armored troops with their command squads, light, medium and heavy walkers and heroes. The SSU ones are now going to be on the field, with the rest coming out soon. And I won't complaint about pricing, just have a look at the competition and you'll see they are fair. BTW you'll spend 235 $ to have each and every SSU unit so it will be 4 walkers, a chopper, a hero on foot and 4 squads. You'd spend the same amount for an allied or axis force this big if not for the core set. It's a pity we have not a SSU core set. Who knows, maybe by DT 2nd edition the core set will put SSU versus Axis or, better still, Vrill...

P.S:: Do not take any offense at my coment. After all we all have been (or still are) victims of an aggressive marketing by certain companies, and intoxicated both visually and gamewise by their games and miniatures (although some of those are excellent).

Well said, Dogged!

It's not only me that's complaining so something has to be wrong here, I can understand how that "thing" could fly, but it's still ugly, and it doesn't even remotely resemble any of the pics you've shown to me. Most of DT sculpts are great like axis tanks and most of units, ssu being no exception, but look of that chopper I can't bare. Does it realy have to fit in one square? just like konigs luther fits into 4 squares, right? If I were FFG and had a Parentes design of that choppa I would throw that into bin, I wouldn't complain if it looked like ka-25.

but the bulky nose small cockpit, square back and short tail, makes it look like some kind of joke. There is a picture from different angle on bottom of that page www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_npm_sec.asp

Sorry I am over with my rant, I like DT a lot, and would like the best for it, I know its all matter of tastes, and 40k was a bad example in that regard.

I like how some people criticized other peoples opinions because they disagreed with theirs, then said they are free to voice their opinions.

Not singling out anyone, but if you don't like the sculpts don't buy it. Complaining about it won't magically alter the sculpts, and it's not as if FFG exclusively caters to you. Also if other people don't like what you do then ignore them, criticizing them on the internet won't magically change their minds.

Also to Dogged, $230 may not be much to you and me, but for some people in my playgroup it is a fortune. Sure the figs are great and with better sculpts and poses too, I understand the price increase. But dust was way cheaper than this, and the price increase can really discourage other people to buy, especially those who got used to the $14 per box and starter sets that were less then $100. Just looking out for my mates that'sall

I love it all and can't wait to get my hands on it!!!! For what it is worth, I like the helicopter and everything else - DT RULES!!!!!

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I hope this game keeps expanding and growing, but, if it doesn't for some reason, I have at least two of every unit put out so far and plan to get at least two of everything released in the future so I will be able to play for YEARS either way.

" Don't like it, don't buy it" is a pretty poor argument. If somebody wants to collect the SSU and what to have a chopper to complete their army what do they do? Either don't bother, buy from another manufacturer or don't buy any of the SSU, either way FFG lose out on income due to a very poor design. Any rants are constructive critisism and FFG should make note for the next model.

@ Wyleco: That's the spirit boy! I recently collected two of every unit in the Axis faction, save for the Command squads, heroes and the heavy walkers, and have not regretted it. If my LGS didn't run out of those elusive Allied figs I would have completed my collection already! Though I like the russian sculps so far, never been a huge fan that faction to begin with, so probably not going to collect that. The vrill however, hmmm a different story. I'd rather start saving now!

@ Major Mishap: I didn't argue with anyone, I merely stated a fact. I never even told anyone they can't complain. Would you rather I said, buy it even if you don't like it? I think that's a dumb suggestion, wouldn't you agree?

And trust me sir, not buying the product sends a bigger message to the producers then whining about it on the internet. The poor sales production would indicate that the product is not buyworthy, therefore the company must adhere to the call of the consumer.

What I am saying is that a poor design for you may look cool to other people. Sure criticism helps but only if those criticizing it are the majority buyers. FFG can't cater to everyone.

Perhaps you misunderstood my post where I said "Criticizing them on the internet won't change their minds.", allow me to clarify, I was addressing the people who flamed those who did not like the sculpt, because they like it.

Don't misunderstand me, I too think 230 bucks is not cheap by any means, but expensive. Quality wise I still think it's a deal when comparing, but this is a highly personal and subjective perspective. The only real trouble can be that starting SSU players will face more rounded and extensive Axis and Allies armies, which with more troop options can take different approaches to both gaming and collecting. But it should not discourage anyone.

For me it helps to highlight a different look on SSU troops than the stereotypical one which we should think of at first thought. I mean, one would normally think of a big, somehow unwieldy mechanized army with big gun walkers and infantry riders, not a bit of subtleness on it but like a hammer. We use to forget that elite Soviet units were fond of scouting and fast movements and able to deeply penetrate enemy territory.

Also I like the looks. Uniforms and equipment show an archaic look to them, very alike real items of that times (as you can see here in

Regarding the chopper, it looks stubby, that is true. It could make with longer blades, and a thinner (and a bit longer tail). Nothing that a modeller can't try to fix by conversion. But don't compare it to postwar designs. Look at prewar ones and those in development during the war and you'll see that it is not that overly silly looking as it may seem. For example, the German Kolibri ( www.helis.com/pioneers/h_fl282.php ) was just 6.5 meters long, and looking at the contraptions made in those times ( www.helis.com/pioneers/1930.php ) one can't help to see it is not very weirder than original "real" designs. In fact if you look at contemporary designs from Kamov ( www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/kamov.html ) you'll see that the SSU chopper has a lot in common with them. It is as fantastic as an armoured walker. Too much ground pressure, stability problems, targeting issues, work overload for its operator, easy target if shooting (it needs to be immobile and correct its position to pick its target), a lot of feeble points (junctures, articulations...).

It is not fair that we criticize these models when we swallow big, square airships with squared wings (no leading edge), ridiculous cargo capacity (full squads of ten rarmoured guys with full equipment on armoured weird airships) and oversized guns (cannons!) on them. And for last, it can fit one square because either it is not on the ground (if it ever is, it is immobile so its area is reduced) or it is engaging in or out of flight and so only its landing gear and cabin mass really are to be cared for (rotors are too high). While in flight, the turbulence (if I can say so) generated by its rotors could make operating below near to impossible (bear in mind it will flight low) as to be able to share space with foot troopers and such.

And it has not to have nice lookings! After all, the Allies walkers are legged turrets. Some will like them (I do), some won't. Allied coats are too large for practicality. Some will like them (I do), some won't. Dammit, the historical Stuka is ugly as hell, but is a must. And talking of stubbiness, look at the I16 (and BTW take a look at the I153). Or the M202 and its asymmetrical wings. Or the British universal carrier. Or the Belgian artillery tractors. Or the Messerschmitt Komet. Or the Owen smg.

People, what you think of zombies? Grenadier X? Totenmeister? Are they pretty? Some will like them (I do), some won't.

And, my God, what about the Chef???

I am confused by many of the overall “arguments” contained within this thread – you are mad because you don’t think the SSU units, in many cases the helicopter specifically, look realistic? Really?

So huge robot like walkers during WWII are realistic, but a helicopter for the new faction which, in fact, is pretty close to real life helicopter is unrealistic?

The last time I checked, this is a FANTASY GAME and not much related to it is realistic. As cool as huge walking tanks are, they are not very practical by realistic standards – very possibly why real world armies have not put the time and effort into making them work. Kind of like the Harrier jet – cool concept and entirely workable since they have been around for many decades now; however, if the idea really was as practical as it is cool, all military aircraft would be Harrier variants.

It’s a game – if you like it, but it; if not, don’t.

Did I mention “I like it”?

Don't you think that when it will be in production and it won't bring cash it will be too late to change things? I am just trying to point that many players are not happy with the design, and they still would have time to change it.

But you are right that won't happen, cause they are not listening to their fan base. I am just glad that something like that flop didn't end up in axis or allies camp... And yes I am gonna vote with my wallet and skip that buy.

I am playing in a club where most of games are 40k, Infinity, and warmachine, and bringing there my FFG board games, and honestly, its not an easy task to convert those people, it almost seems that looks is more important for them than ruleset (like wh40k, I couldn't play it, what a mess). If I would bring that mini there I would be laughed at. DT was a bargain that's why (and ruleset) I got into it, now being more and more expensive especialy in europe, it's not the best deal any more and close to its competition...

Doubt the change will happen anytime soon. The fact that they have already posted it in the product list means they have already made the molds... Not going to be cheap making new ones.

Honestly it looks fine to me, maybe we should all wait and see. You've only seen one picture, i don't think it is enough to judge the model based on that.

wylecoyo said:

I don't think anyone complained about the chopper not being realistc, just looks horrible, like a childs toy. The other units arn't in question either, are they? 'cause I love them.

You like it? Wel I guess somebody has to, people do have different tastes.

40K players who scorn the Mi45 are not to be trusted on this matter. At least if they do not scorn much more the Stormraven, the Rhino, the Predator, the Land Raider, the Razorback, the Chimera, the Thunderhawk, each and every necron, dark eldar and ork vehicles. O space marine armour and bolters. Or ork weaponry, the whole of it. Or almost everything in 40K in fact. Don't let them laugh at DT as it is still cheaper than most (or all of 'em) and looks certainly better (to most if not all of them, maybe Infinity...). And the coming of DW still makes it better.

Do you realize, when you mention the fan base, that posters here are a tiny minority of that base? There will be SSU players (I will for one play them too) and almost all will have the chopper+squad. The Steel Rain is ugly, but a lot of people have it (or will) because of its worthiness and because it has a coolness about it. Like a bulldog, undoubtedly beautiful in its undoubted ugliness. And if you ever got to play 40K Chaos, the dreadnought (and the defiler in fact) were/are ugly as hell...

With respect to FFG, it's been distributing DT since summer 2010. That's about 18 months. We've got a starter big set, a revised starter set (both very different between them), two accessories (cards and tiles), three campaign expansions with heroes, scenarios, background, terrain and scenics, five heroes for each side (that's ten in total), 11 expansions for each side for combining with the troops in the core sets to complete a total of fourteen possible different squads and nine walkers for each side (three lights, four mediums and two heavies). Incoming are three heroes and one heavy command squad for each side and then the SSU, with one hero, four squads, four walkers and one airship for them. That's 29 products with 4 more in 2 weeks and then a new faction with an expansion and 5 expansions for it. I think it is pretty good a rhythm!

Just find another player and stick to it. You'll see that (specially imaginative and friendly, not dull, nor silly) players will come to your games. When they realize just how cheap is to build a DT army (because it is) and how they can team-play if necessary, they will move on to play DT too if not the most.

P.S.: many different WWII and other times "real" vehicles look like toys, at least in their reduced scale versions. Look at the Ontos for example... Or the Komet... Dammit, look at the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. And they were mean tools, weren't they? Jokingly, you can't wait finesse in design from the people who made the GAZ and ZAZ cars. Although they made the MiG 3 and the Lavoshkins too... And certain GAZs are pretty enough... Get my point?

There are a few things to consider.

First, the helicopter is a big, ugly brute. If you look at most Soviet troop helicopters, that's what they've been making for several decades. To give more reason for the helicopter's less than sleek and stylish frame: the game is set in 1947, and helicopters haven't been around very long. Take a look at the WW2 helicopters, and you won't find a Balckhawk or Apache look anywhere. Early helicopters were clunky for several years, and the Soviets have always gone for function and simplicity over form when they could, because it made production and maintenance easier.

As for the models, it looks like FFG is pricing newer units higher, but they've been giving us very nice pricing before this, so the increase is not as bad as for some games (I remember buying Warmachine heavy warjacks for $20).

They've released info for their initial releases for the SSU, but that does not mean they have no plans for an SSU starter set. They may leave the SSU as a faction without as good a buy in deal, or they may release a starter set when they have more idea on what they think would make a good one. Since DUST is a scalable game, buying into the SSU slowly still allows players to start playing games without that much expense compared to many other wargames.

There are players who want impressive castings they can paint to whatever standards they hold, but there are also players that want to play, but really don't like painting. Those who assume the majority of wargamers are also painting enthusiasts are treading on questionable ground. The vast majority of players I've dealt with through the years want a nice looking army, but don't particularly like having to take the time to paint it. Frequently, they would prefer not having to assemble it.

There's a reason there are so many players that make extra money painting other people's armies, and that things like the 'dip' method of fast painting are so popular.

I enjoy painting my models, and don't mind assembly, but I appreciate DUST's pre-assembled and pre-primed figures because those are the two steps I enjoy the least. It's nice to have good quality, relatively realistic sculpts that I can simply pull from the box and start painting however I like.

Games with wild poses that try to look imposing tend to leave me cold, because frequently those attempts at impressive sculpts look very unrealistic to anyone who has had to actually handle a weapon. Give me a good looking soldier that looks like a soldier over a silly looking poser any day. I won't argue anyone else's choice to like such sculpts, because aesthetics are too subjective, but I appreciate DUST's models.

Looking more at the helicopter it seems to be a cross of Ka-25 and a Mil Mi-4, only twice as ugly. If only any of those two helis were available as 1:48 scale kits this wouldn't be a problem.

I can see why people would have issues with the look of the chopper on first blush. However, I personally take it as a compromise between aesthetics, game play (footprint on the board) and production concerns. In the end, it is a piece for a game. I can live with whatever "non realistic" look it may have....walking tanks are realistic??....and enjoy the game and the setting.

I also look at it this way. As a fan of AT-43, I just prayed Rackham would hit some sort of promised production schedule. With Dust Tactics, FFG has put out quite a bit of product in a short amount of time. The upcoming Dust Warfare rules and the release of the SSU troops only show the continued commitment they have for the game.

I see my SSU force needing a few of the choppers when the Warfare rules hit.

We have to buy this, Mil 4 (is 1/35 Dust scale, no?

No, Dust is 1:48.

C'mon guys, don't be so quick to condemn the chopper. We've only seen a single angle of it. Plus, it's a troop transport, it's not supposed to look like a predator.

Doesn't have to look like a predator, just musn't look like a purchase from the Early Learning Center

Seems somewhat confirmed in the 'Seeing Red' news article that the building is the same one as Cerberus. Hopefully not, but sounds like it.

IMO, they have picked up the style of the early helicopters pretty accurately - from the Allies point of view, check out the Sikorsky H-19 (1949) H-34 and the UK's Westland Wessex.

blkdymnd said:

I don't think it is the same building - it is one third of the same building - the refer to it as "another level" of the building. So presumably anyone who owns cerberus will be able to build 1 x 4 stories, 2 x 2, 4 x 1 or 3 + 1.

I'm hoping it looks at least slightly different and that they fix the small tiles issue.