also back on topic ive been playing with zigil and map maker- pretty much what youve done here........land all the resources onto bifur and put the extra one per turn onto him, then buff up map makers willpower by about 10/15 per turn.....crazy stuff....thought id mention it as i didnt see him in any of your decks

Hmmm this deck seems strangely familiar to me... Maybe I should have named it "Ziggy" at least you seem to be getting people to post comments on the actual deck rather than useless posts about some dudes tournament.

LoL… drives Ziggy.. at a cost of 2 instead of 5.. and can support all 3 Ziggys being in play at the same time (instead of only 2) AND can support any spirit player at teh table (so in 2 player game you can run 6 ziggys off this one card) AND it is in teh correct sphere so no need to go deep into lore to drive ziggy

Now THAT is power creep

On paper, it certainly makes Zigil Miner-based strategies even more effective than they already are. The one downside I see is the inability to swap a card from your hand with one from the top of the deck. I don't think it'll matter very often, but there might be situations in which none of the top five cards in your deck are worth sacrificing. Also, the Stargazer is quite a bit more fragile than Gildor.

Definitely an upgrade under most circumstances, though.

ohh … yeah your right.. this might be key to getting the deck to function. Still a proper deck set will should always hit high costs cards in 5 so it might not make a difference… I'll run a test deck using a proxy.

Imladris Stargazer + Ziggy = broken game

I'm sure there's some sort of reason why FFG is enabling more Ziggy decks, but I can't even remotely think of it. Ziggy is the worst thing they've done for this game and now they are pouring fuel on the fire. What are they thinking? If they ever set up tournament play, I expect Zigil Miner to be one of the first cards that gets banned.

This isn't power creep, it's power surge. I fear for the long term stability of the game if this is the kind of comboing they are encouraging.

Style75 said:

But are decks that exploit Ziggy actually getting the best results, in terms of (a) low scores, (b) winning consistently, © the combination of these two that is reflected in the scoring for juicebox's tournaments?

I'm not convinced that they are, going by the results reported for the aforementioned juicebox tournaments (the best data we have available).

yes i believe they do get consistent results….just ask boored….early on in its release he was one of the first players to really exploit it…there was a long discussion over its brokeness or otherwise….and i agree its broken - worst cards of the game….personally i have solved this by jsut not playing it

jjeagle said:

the argument of is it or isn't it broken has been done to death.. play with it or not.. lets not rehash all that… .. but…

it should be noted that the ziggy deck is at its heart a support deck. While there was a deck from Tragic when ziggy was released that was designed for solo it is not a particularly great solo deck.. I mean you will hardly EVER loose.. but your scores will not be that good.. in a normal game though this is not true. in it full form as a support deck in multiplayer it is pretty insane.

the arguement has indeed been done to death and more, but it still remains that the points for a counter argument are getting less and less….with each of the cards that help the zigil deck it gets stronger and stronger, stargazer just completely boosts its usefulness tenfold

as ive said i dont use it, however i still agree with style75-its fuel to the zigil fire