Hey guys. I just picked up the game last week and I'm having quite a bit of fun with it so far. I've been playing the Star Wars CCG competitively and would like to do the same with AGOT. So I thought I would run this scenario by you guys to see how this community handles tournament situations.

Ok so here's the scenario. I have 13 power and a 2 claim plot on the table. I win an opposed power challenge and my opponent says ahh looks like you win. I look at the board for a minute trying to figure out how I could have won the game with only 13 power and an opposed power challenge victtory. (Yes, I forgot my plot claim was 2, remember I'm a newb.) Finally, I say, hmm I don't see how I win, what am I missing. My opponent takes a long pause and then says hmm I guess you don't win. I pass my challenges, and he then proceeds to do a challenge of his own. At that point I say, oh yeah my plot is a 2 claim plot I guess I did win. My opponent says well that already happened so we should just press on from here. I proceed to lose the game after a valar and some poor draws.

So how does this community handle a scenario like that. Coming from the SWCCG that is exactly how we would have handled it. Essentially, it's on you to read and enforce your own cards. Some people will actually help you enforce mandatory actions, but others will not. In fact, some players will go so far as to try to exploit this situation as much as they can, though I would say this is frowned upon. So how does the AGOT community handle tournament situations like this? What is "legal" and what is acceptable? Thanks for your feedback as I'd like to follow the standard protocol of the community, if one exists. By the way, I've been really enjoying the game so far and looking forward to learning the game better!

Tiny Grimes

My initial reaction would be that claim is not an 'optional' thing- the loser MUST fulfill the claim number on the revealed plot card, whether the attacking player 'calls' it or not. But I'll be interested to hear from other, more experienced players on this matter.

Claim is not optional. There are many facets of this game that happen without player actions, and claim is one of them. If you had a response that you forgot to play at the time, your opponent may very well not let you back up a bit to trigger it -- they also might let you, it's really dependent on the players and the situations. But you can't forget claim. You won the game.

If you're ready to dive into the intricacies of the game, definitely check out the FAQ. The discussion of the game flow within AGOT is incredibly helpful for figuring out many of the questions you may have as you play. You'll have questions still -- check out the Rules discussion, which is pretty much always extremely helpful and informative -- but you'll definitely better understand the clockwork of the game.

Here's the thing in your scenario:

You passed on your challenges . You never initiated the power challenge that allowed you to win. Your opponent is under no obligation to look at the board and explain to you what you have to do to win, even if he says he think you can win. It is not up to your opponent to play your game for you, and there is no reason for your opponent to say "yeah, we'll change the outcome and say you won" when you realize later that you should have initiated a challenge.

If the conversation is:

• "It's your turn to challenge. You can win with your challenges."
• "I don't see it."
• "Oh, well maybe I'm wrong."
• "I'm not going to do any challenges. It's your turn"
• "OK. I do these challenges. I guess I win."
• "Oh, Wait, I see it now. I could have won with my challenges."
• "Sorry. You passed on your challenges. Too late."

no one cheated. You made the choice not to challenge.

Now, if you HAD initiated the power challenge, won it, and your opponent, seeing you had a claim of 2, only fulfilled a claim of 1 (giving you 14 instead of 15), relying on your inexperience or forgetfulness to continue the game, that's cheating. So if the conversation had gone like this:

• "It's your turn to challenge. You can win with your challenges."
• "I don't see it."
• "Oh, well maybe I'm wrong."
• "Well, I'll do a power challenge anyway. I win. That takes me to 14. It's your turn."
• Thinking, "He forgot he has claim 2!" Speaking, "OK, I do these challenges. I guess I win."
• "Oh, Wait, I see it now. When I won that power challenge, I had claim 2, not claim 1. I was at 15, not 14, before your challenges."
• "Sorry. You passed. Too late."

that's cheating, and it would be up to the TO what to do about it.

In my experience, a defender who knows you have claim 2 on a challenge you actually win is not likely to try to get away with only fulfilling a claim 1 in this community. However, I don't know anyone who is going to let you go backwards and take claim on a challenge you never actually declared.

Ktom, he did win an opposed power challenge before he passed, so it was the 2nd scenario.

The OP said that he did initiate the Power Challenge (and win it), then he passed the rest of his challenges.

This was a case of cheating.

I'm rather confused. I don't see anywhere that the OP mentioned that he actually made the challenge, and as such, I agree entirely with ktom's assessment.

Kennon said:

"Ok so here's the scenario. I have 13 power and a 2 claim plot on the table. I win an opposed power challenge and my opponent says ahh looks like you win."

Right here.

Ah, bingo. I misread that as "If I win..." the first time through.

I have another tournament scenario.

I attack with a deadly character, and don't declare that it is deadly. Opponent doesn't notice, defends, and after it comes to their attention, says "no... it is common etiquette to DECLARE your deadly characters" and changes his defenders retroactively.

Firstly, who is in the right?

Secondly, does the community as a whole actually think this?

You are in the right. While many people do so, you're under no obligation to remind your opponent of visible information on the board when you attack like your total STR, deadly, renown, etc before the actual trigger point of those things.

It would be like having the new LotR Joffrey in play, and then reminding your opponent every time they knelt a character to attack you, that they really shouldn't do that because you might win dominance and use him to keep the characters knelt.

I apologize. Like Kennon, I read the original post focusing on the "I passed on challenges" and missing the "I (do) win an opposed power challenge" - taking it as "I could win an opposed power challenge." But - at least I hedged my explanation by looking at both possibilities.

On the "Deadly" question: Kennon is correct. There is no requirement saying you need to point out everything on the table. It's kind of like an attacker saying "before I attack, how much could you defend in a military challenge?" The characters and STR boosts are sitting right in front of you. It's not the defender's responsibility to do the attacker's math for him. Similarly, it is "etiquette" (in that "a lot of people do it") to call out the total STR you are attacking with when you declare attackers. Does that mean the defender doesn't have to check the math?

Using the "etiquette" argument to say "you should have told me because I wasn't paying attention" doesn't really fly. It is your job to pay attention.