Okay, before anything else, I will say that Librarians are a powerful choice. I don't use Compel or the other things though, that make them game-breakers.

However, I do not like the fact that they have the expensive advancement cost for fellowship. What I really don't like is there is no advanced specialty, no deed, no honour, or anything else that reduces this cost increase.

So, the question I pose is would any of you introduce a deed, honour, or specialty to reduce the cost of Fellowship in your campaigns? Just house-rule it to be lower? Do you feel that the cost is fine as-is? Why?

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with either the advancement cost following the 500xp, or even the 200xp progressions because you either end up with builds that don't use it at all (and thus don't care how much it is, cause they aint buying) or people (like me) who use it a lot. Or at least house-ruling the cost to be less if the player is buying a Deed that deals with leadership. Why?

I am playing a Silver Skull Librarian (for fluff, mechanically it is just a Ultramarine). I am ALWAYS the leader. Silver Skulls only go into battle when their Librarians (called prognosticators) have predicted victory. I play this up, I do Augery, then set our Oath of Knowledge against whatever the most powerful enemy is.

So lets look at this. My Librarian is the leader, the party "face", uses the Ultramarine squad attack mode, and just plain has Fellowship as his second most used stat (WP obviously is the most)

What's more is the Deed in Rites of Battle for Librarians is one of leadership. (Mine has the Second in Command Deed)

So I have this Battle-Brother leading his troops, using Paragon to boost their WP, using Inspiring Words them to resist fear, Leading by Example (making them better all over), et cetera.

But the most expensive stat for me to advance (that I care about) is fellowship. I will grant that after rank 5, there is the Epistolary and their special power that boosts fellowship, but before that, nothing.

The question is: how much fellowship do you need? If you have a Fel characteristic in the 50s, that suffice for all required task. I know my BA Librarian did take the first Fel advance to make it into the 50s. Even a Fel stat in the 40s isn't bad. Instead of increasing the characteristic, it's usually better to take some talents. My librarian has Command and Air of Authority, that's good enough for the moment. He's rank 4 now and thus can get Command+10.

If you want to maximize the effect of your Lead By Example power, I'd have to say: it's not worth it. Whether everyone gets +4% or +6% is pretty much unimportant and that holds true even after doubling the effect. And if you want to play a librarian that is a super-duper leader and has a magnificent charisma, pay the price. (Yeah, I know: librarians need experience more than anyone else due to psy rating increases and psychic powers, etc.)

I will agree though that the expensive characteristics are probably too expensive. I mean... I don't think anyone has ever paid for more than the initial characteristic increase of an expensive (750xp) stat. Certainly no more than 2 rank increases. Probably noone pays 2,000 or 5,000 xp for a +5 on an attribute. It's just not worth it. Most certainly not on 5,000, it's just silly. One might want to change that into 750 1,250 1,750 2,500 progression and it's all still very expensive.

Or ask your GM for special successor rules regarding your chapter. Like making Fel advances cheaper for librarians.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Not needed. My Fellowship, Command, and everything else are already good (65, +20, AoA, and 3k XP from having the Fel boosting power). The reason I gave my example is that I asked for everyone else's opinion, and I want to know why you feel that way, so I gave mine and the why. (when I joined this campaign, no-one had any idea how to use the Oaths or Squad Mode, and had agitated any and all Guardsmen and even Inquisitors that they had spent more than 10 minutes with, so I took care of all of that pretty quickly.)

I just don't like the fact that there is so much fluff about Librarians as leaders, and even their Deed in RoB makes it crunch, that I am disappointed that there isn't something to fix this by now. To compare: In Dark Heresy, there was a lot of fluff out there about psykers who could go uber with a force sword (especially in the novels), and as soon as the Inquisitors Handbook came out, there was a specialty that gave them access to more combative talents, and a better WS advancement cost.

I thought the traditional role of librarians was as second-in-command. Anyway, you shouldn't overlook though that we're dealing with Deathwatch librarians here. Their role is probably a bit different - with a marked pronounciation on the advisory role of their profession. Deathwatch Marines are selected, as Nathan I believe remarked a few times, for their individuality - their ableness to operate very efficiently alone or in small teams.

Thus DW librarians probably don't have to lead the way they might do in chapters. Instead librarians are not nominally part of a specific kill-team but the librarius is attached directly under the auspices of the Watch Commander/Master of the Vigil in an advisory/support role. My librarian in all the missions we have played so far has always been the second-in-command (although he could lead if he had to); he didn't want to be the team leader. It's not the way he sees himself or his role. Other librarians can have different interpretations of their role though.

Anyway, your librarian has great stats for a leader, so it seems doable.

Alex

As a Librarian you are quite distant from your fellow Astartes and unable to relate well to them. Your Brothers regard you with suspicion; and while you may be trusted and honored, you will never be as close to them as a normal Battle Brother. For those reasons the expensive cost of raising fellowship for Librarians and Tec Marines, to me, is totally justified. If you work hard at it however, as represented by spending so much XP, you may be able to overcome these barriers, but it should not be easy.