I'm asking for help from the community.

The short version:
Name items or combinations of items that may be too powerful for an investigator to start the game with.

The long version:
One of the upcoming items on the to-do list for Strange Eons 3 is to update the design consequences in the investigator editor and I could use some input. One area that I would like to update is item interactions. I don't think that these have been updated since Dunwich came out, and I have hardly any time to play the game these days so I don't trust that I'll make a thorough list by myself.

The kinds of things I'm looking for come in three flavours:

1. single items that are more powerful at the start of the game or which become very powerful over time due to a cummulative effect, and hence might be too powerful for an investigator to start the game with
2. items that interact with another item in a synergistic way which might either be too powerful or which the designer should at least be aware of
3. same as #2, but between the interaction is between an item and one of the official standard abilities

An example of #1 is Professor Rice, who dumps clues like a slot machine paying out a jackpot when drawn at the start of a game. An example of #2 is having the Grapple skill and the Shotgun as starting items, because Grapple makes 6's twice as likely and Shotgun doubles the effect of a 6.

The purpose is not to forbid these combinations, but simply to make sure a designer is aware of them. For example, if I want to make an "Alligator Wrestler" I might choose Grapple and Shotgun because I feel that they fit the character, without realizing that a synergistic effect exists. (Once I know about the effect, there are any number of ways that I might adjust the design to account for it, only one of which is removing one of the offending items.)

If you can, please list your items/combinations and clearly describe what you think the issue is.

Cheers,
Chris

Mythos Lore + Granny Orne (not to mention Mythos Lore + Granny Orne + Press Pass, in this way you need 2 clues to put down a seal)

How about the revised Mask of Vice?

Things to be wary of:

• The Press Pass is the one that jumps out at me as causing most problems. I've had to shift "gain clue effects" from the Upkeep to the Mythos Phase to prevent exploits with this one.
• Any combat items that doubles successes on a 6 can be problematic with effects that up dice rolls.
• Anything that heals or prevents damage can cause timing issues, notably in the final battle although there's the age old chestnut of Tommy eventually killing Ithaqua's cultist but taking 200 rolls to do so.
• Anything that reduces speed and/or focus, or makes movement costlier, can under some circumsances, leave a player trapped in the hsopital without enough movement points to go anywhere.
• Monster should not, under any circumstances, be capable of moving to or appearing in St Mary's Hospital or the Asylum.

Off-topic, it might be worth seeing if you can get permission from FFG to include a library of artwork in SE. Finding suitable artwork is one of the biggest challenges of card design (Oh how I wish google image search would allow you to remove all photos and cartoons in the results pane!). In fact, I find a good rule of thumb when examining submissions from this fourm is to check the artwork. If they've spent some time trying to track down appropriate artwork they usually care about the card and will have probably put the same amount of effort into their design.

Basically you're talking about marking "major items" in the same way that I think some allies are flagged as 'major allies'?

There aren't many item-item combos, that I know of... most the game's abusable combinations involve interactions with investigators' special abilities, or with Ancient Ones' attacks. Clarifications of the difference between "loss"/"spend" has gotten rid of most of the ludicrous combinations using Call Ancient One etc.

- The new Mask of Vice does seem like it might cause trouble, but I can't think of many specific cases. If Ashcan Pete has it, he can keep getting the same tomes back, and in the case of the Eltdown Shards this is game-changing - but no-one else can abuse it that way - unless they also have the ORIGINAl mask of vice and can turn into Ashcan Pete -but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be using both items in the same game, let alone giving them both to one investigator as fixeds!

- The Milk of Shub-Niggurath and the Time-Bomb are a powerful combo, but it is one-use-only and drives you mad, so even as a starting pair of items it's not excessive.

- The Puzzle Box, with the luck skill that adds a success, and/or with something that ignores sanity loss, is very good, but still not too extreme in my view.

N.B. Monsters appearing at the hospital/asylum is a big problem for the investigators, but I don't see why it should be "impossible" - the Milk of Shub-Niggurath makes it possible already, and the turn structure means that you simply need to evade the monsters on that space, then get treated, then next turn evade the monster again in order to escape. It is a very inconvenient place for a monster to be, but then the same can be true of almost any other place, depending on the circumstances. Strictly speaking, the hospital and asylum locations do not provide effects which are fundamental to gameplay: the fundamental bit is that you get restored to 1 San / Stam.

Another combo coming to my mind is Necronomicon + Vision (old Dark Pharaoh edition): it's a mine of clues. Not so easy to exploit as other things, maybe, but to be eventually considered

Julia said:

MyNeighbourTrololo said:

Rewording: Press Pass: you grab your second clue and magically you have a third one. Enough for entering a gate and sealing if you have Mythos Lore and Granny Orne. Never said they give you physically the clues, but you can use them to spare clues and seal quicker

The way you said it. "Need only 2 clues to seal a gate". I imagined a person with only 2 clues at the moment of gate sealing.

MyNeighbourTrololo said:

Ah, ok, got it. Nope, I meant you have to dig for 2 clues, the rest wasn't necessary because of your equipment, giving extra clues, or allowing you to spend less clues because you can exhaust some cards

Phew, I didn't mean to take so long to get back to this thread. Thanks for the input, all.

I'll try to answer a few specific questions that were raised:

Corinthian: Sort of. There is actually a separate rule that covers powerful items (such as the Tommy Gun). As you discern later in your post, this is primarily about combinations of starting possessions: each might be fine on its own, but together they may create an unfair advantage or have other (possibly unwanted) side effects.

Musha: Hadn't noticed the Mask of Vice in the revised edition yet. It is certainly powerful, though in this case, since Exhibit items have no official price, I can handle it by setting a high list price. But thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Jake yet again: Spanish players have collected a lot of the artwork from FFG's CoC card game. Some years ago a Spanish AH player packaged these up as a kind of art kit for AH content. It's a great resource. I'm not sure if the archive file has been kept up to date, but they are still collecting art over at the Edge forum .

Cheers,
Chris