Hi!

I have not yet included any PC priest in my campaign. Before doing that, I would want to read your opinions about something.

In the 3rd ed, both, Priest and Magister spells reach the same rank i.e 3 (5 with the arriving of Heroe's Call supplement) but Priests can wear any type of armour (i.e. full plate) while Magisters none. Makes this an unbalancing effect regarding combat? I mean, since Priest can wear armour, they are for sure more resistant against enemy attacks, but are also their spells as effective in combat situation as the ones form magisters?

sorry I forgot to mention

additionally Priests spells don't suffer from Miscast.

So Priest can wear armour, they don't suffer Miscast and their spells reach the same Rank as those of Magisters. Are the two classes balanced?

Hi,

I've had both in the game i GM. The armour thing is a bit of a pro for priests, but I think its important to remember the constraints that RPing a priest well will have. You dont just get to choose your motives and run with them as a wiz would do, you have the duty to your god to consider. Of course you can ignore the commandments of your god, but that comes with a risk. Stat wise I found the wiz able to optimise many of his strengths very quicky, while the priest had to spread everything around a bit.

I guess to your question I would have to say I did find them to be balanced, both were very capable at the areas they should be. The wizard had slightly more extreme strengths and weaknesses.

Hope that helps.

I agree, on paper priests are stronger than wizards, but roleplaying-wise wizards don't suffer the same restraints as priests do.

Their god (GM...) will tire with them, when they constantly cry for help. Remember, while wizards do their stuff themselves, a priest is in all simplicity crying for "pappa" to help them. And if it's always a one-way thing (constantly asking, never giving) everyone would stop helping.

My last campaign I stacked up the priests Chaos Stars from curry favour and casting blessings, in turn I removed them again when he did things his god would approve of, and when I reached a fixed number I simply cut of the heat. No more favour coming to the priest. I told him his god didn't seem to respond, and then he started to do all sorts of stuff to please his god . After a while, the good will came back. This taught him to limit his usage of blessings.

Just as a note: In previous editions, priests were "less powerful" because their first career could not cast spells/blessings, while wizards could.

Now, a couple things to keep in mind.

- Armor and weapons are heavy. It isn't an easy balance to strike up to be able to wear and carry around armor, fight in the armor, as well as successfully invoke blessings. Essentially, a priest that tries to be good in melee and wear armor won't be as good at invoking blessings. Wizards, on the other hand, are better able to focus their advances/purchases.

- Blessings are on the whim of the priest's god. Which means the GM can roleplay divine disfavor.

- The game isn't intended to balance PCs ... especially around combat. A celestial Wizard will not do the same damage as a Bright Wizard. A Priestess of Shallya will not do the same damage as a Priest of Sigmar. Etc.

- Priests have to purchase Curry Favor and Invocation, Wizards start with their version for free.

We can probably come up with more.

Essentially, though, do not worry about "balance". Priests and wizards serve very different roles, and provide very different benefits to a group. Combat, and usefulness in combat, is just one aspect and depends more on the particular flavor (College/Order) of the wizard/priest and the PC build, than on the actual career itself.

An important point here as you mention is the will of the gods. This is something, I as GM, can use to "control" the behaviour of any priest. I agree, but again is something that lacks a RAW rule, and the GM must again take care of it

Has any of you developed a mechanics (may be based on chaos stars as proposed) like in the 2nd ed with the table "Wrath of the Gods" to punish priest that overuse gods favour?

I like very much this 3rd edition, more and more I have to say, but sometimes I think they should put more rules. I prefer to have more rules in the books and having to house rule /remove them if I don't like them, than having to house rule things just because there are no rules in the books.

For the armor thing, 9 times out of 10 you are talking about 2 soak, 3 max.

I have both a priest and wizard in my party, and I've never really thought one was overpowered.

We had a little trouble with our Grey wizard's doppleganger spell so I had to have him make some disguise checks for voice, etc.

Our priest of ranald had the "find any item" spell, which is pretty dang potent. Probably best to piecemeal the results of this and string players along clue lines (or parts of it..impressions..or clues..) rather than just "outright" finding things.

Priests need their "heal everyone up full between encounters" blessing nerfed.

Make usr eyou use the errata for the bright wizard.

jh

Emirikol said:

Doesn't each healing spell only work on a person once per day? I guess if you had a Shallyan priest take the healing spell for each rank it could become silly but seems like it would be an isolated deal.

Emirikol said:

Heh? What's in that bright wizard errata?

Never saw it.

Drawback said:

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• Talent Card: Aqshy Lore of Fire Order Card

You can find that and more in the Errata index in my fancy-dancy house rulebook

jh

I've taken the liberty of saving your "manual" as I think some parts of it shall be "borrowed" with your approbation for my own campaign!

Good work there!

Hi all,

just another difference between Priests and Wizards (I hope I remember it all correctly):

Priests
+ blessings can be cast even if not sufficient favour
- cannot pregather favour because curry favour can only be used in a turn after casting a blessing with not enough favour
- powerful blessings will take their effect with a delay

Wizards
- must have sufficient power
+ can load up on power
+ spells always take effect immediately when cast

This makes a wizard be more flexible and direct, whereas a priest has a generally lower favour pool and has to manage delayed effects. A wizard starts with the required skills aquired, a priest has to buy them.
The wizards basic action cantrip is extremely versatile!

Drawback said:

Enjoy it and use it responsibly Its under perpetual updating and mostly exists to fill holes in the game without nitpicking too much on the rules.

jh